if gaza falls.

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Published on Tuesday, December 23, 2008 by London Review of Books
If Gaza Falls . . .
by Sara Roy
Israel's siege of Gaza began on 5 November, the day after an Israeli attack inside the strip, no doubt designed finally to undermine the truce between Israel and Hamas established last June. Although both sides had violated the agreement before, this incursion was on a different scale. Hamas responded by firing rockets into Israel and the violence has not abated since then. Israel's siege has two fundamental goals. One is to ensure that the Palestinians there are seen merely as a humanitarian problem, beggars who have no political identity and therefore can have no political claims. The second is to foist Gaza onto Egypt. That is why the Israelis tolerate the hundreds of tunnels between Gaza and Egypt around which an informal but increasingly regulated commercial sector has begun to form. The overwhelming majority of Gazans are impoverished and officially 49.1 per cent are unemployed. In fact the prospect of steady employment is rapidly disappearing for the majority of the population.

On 5 November the Israeli government sealed all the ways into and out of Gaza. Food, medicine, fuel, parts for water and sanitation systems, fertiliser, plastic sheeting, phones, paper, glue, shoes and even teacups are no longer getting through in sufficient quantities or at all. According to Oxfam only 137 trucks of food were allowed into Gaza in November. This means that an average of 4.6 trucks per day entered the strip compared to an average of 123 in October this year and 564 in December 2005. The two main food providers in Gaza are the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) and the World Food Programme (WFP). UNRWA alone feeds approximately 750,000 people in Gaza, and requires 15 trucks of food daily to do so. Between 5 November and 30 November, only 23 trucks arrived, around 6 per cent of the total needed; during the week of 30 November it received 12 trucks, or 11 per cent of what was required. There were three days in November when UNRWA ran out of food, with the result that on each of these days 20,000 people were unable to receive their scheduled supply. According to John Ging, the director of UNRWA in Gaza, most of the people who get food aid are entirely dependent on it. On 18 December UNRWA suspended all food distribution for both emergency and regular programmes because of the blockade.

The WFP has had similar problems, sending only 35 trucks out of the 190 it had scheduled to cover Gazans' needs until the start of February (six more were allowed in between 30 November and 6 December). Not only that: the WFP has to pay to store food that isn't being sent to Gaza. This cost $215,000 in November alone. If the siege continues, the WFP will have to pay an extra $150,000 for storage in December, money that will be used not to support Palestinians but to benefit Israeli business.

The majority of commercial bakeries in Gaza - 30 out of 47 - have had to close because they have run out of cooking gas. People are using any fuel they can find to cook with. As the UN Food and Agriculture Organisation (FAO) has made clear, cooking-gas canisters are necessary for generating the warmth to incubate broiler chicks. Shortages of gas and animal feed have forced commercial producers to smother hundreds of thousands of chicks. By April, according to the FAO, there will be no poultry there at all: 70 per cent of Gazans rely on chicken as a major source of protein.

Banks, suffering from Israeli restrictions on the transfer of banknotes into the territory were forced to close on 4 December. A sign on the door of one read: ‘Due to the decision of the Palestinian Finance Authority, the bank will be closed today Thursday, 4.12.2008, because of the unavailability of cash money, and the bank will be reopened once the cash money is available.'

The World Bank has warned that Gaza's banking system could collapse if these restrictions continue. All cash for work programmes has been stopped and on 19 November UNRWA suspended its cash assistance programme to the most needy. It also ceased production of textbooks because there is no paper, ink or glue in Gaza. This will affect 200,000 students returning to school in the new year. On 11 December, the Israeli defence minister, Ehud Barak, sent $25 million following an appeal from the Palestinian prime minister, Salaam Fayad, the first infusion of its kind since October. It won't even cover a month's salary for Gaza's 77,000 civil servants.

On 13 November production at Gaza's only power station was suspended and the turbines shut down because it had run out of industrial diesel. This in turn caused the two turbine batteries to run down, and they failed to start up again when fuel was received some ten days later. About a hundred spare parts ordered for the turbines have been sitting in the port of Ashdod in Israel for the last eight months, waiting for the Israeli authorities to let them through customs. Now Israel has started to auction these parts because they have been in customs for more than 45 days. The proceeds are being held in Israeli accounts.

During the week of 30 November, 394,000 litres of industrial diesel were allowed in for the power plant: approximately 18 per cent of the weekly minimum that Israel is legally obliged to allow in. It was enough for one turbine to run for two days before the plant was shut down again. The Gaza Electricity Distribution Company said that most of the Gaza Strip will be without electricity for between four and 12 hours a day. At any given time during these outages, over 65,000 people have no electricity.

No other diesel fuel (for standby generators and transport) was delivered during that week, no petrol (which has been kept out since early November) or cooking gas. Gaza's hospitals are apparently relying on diesel and gas smuggled from Egypt via the tunnels; these supplies are said to be administered and taxed by Hamas. Even so, two of Gaza's hospitals have been out of cooking gas since the week of 23 November.

Adding to the problems caused by the siege are those created by the political divisions between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and the Hamas Authority in Gaza. For example, Gaza's Coastal Municipalities Water Utility (CMWU), which is not controlled by Hamas, is supposed to receive funds from the World Bank via the Palestinian Water Authority (PWA) in Ramallah to pay for fuel to run the pumps for Gaza's sewage system. Since June, the PWA has refused to hand over those funds, perhaps because it feels that a functioning sewage system would benefit Hamas. I don't know whether the World Bank has attempted to intervene, but meanwhile UNRWA is providing the fuel, although they have no budget for it. The CMWU has also asked Israel's permission to import 200 tons of chlorine, but by the end of November it had received only 18 tons - enough for one week of chlorinated water. By mid-December Gaza City and the north of Gaza had access to water only six hours every three days.

According to the World Health Organisation, the political divisions between Gaza and the West Bank are also having a serious impact on drug stocks in Gaza. The West Bank Ministry of Health (MOH) is responsible for procuring and delivering most of the pharmaceuticals and medical disposables used in Gaza. But stocks are at dangerously low levels. Throughout November the MOH West Bank was turning shipments away because it had no warehouse space, yet it wasn't sending supplies on to Gaza in adequate quantities. During the week of 30 November, one truck carrying drugs and medical supplies from the MOH in Ramallah entered Gaza, the first delivery since early September.

The breakdown of an entire society is happening in front of us, but there is little international response beyond UN warnings which are ignored. The European Union announced recently that it wanted to strengthen its relationship with Israel while the Israeli leadership openly calls for a large-scale invasion of the Gaza Strip and continues its economic stranglehold over the territory with, it appears, the not-so-tacit support of the Palestinian Authority in Ramallah - which has been co-operating with Israel on a number of measures. On 19 December Hamas officially ended its truce with Israel, which Israel said it wanted to renew, because of Israel's failure to ease the blockade.

How can keeping food and medicine from the people of Gaza protect the people of Israel? How can the impoverishment and suffering of Gaza's children - more than 50 per cent of the population - benefit anyone? International law as well as human decency demands their protection. If Gaza falls, the West Bank will be next.

© 2008 London Review of Books
Sara Roy teaches at Harvard's Center for Middle Eastern Studies and is the author of Failing Peace: Gaza and the Palestinian-Israeli Conflict.
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nahida December 26th, 2008 3:10 pm
LOOK AT ME

I would love to write poetry about love,
Paint rainbows and butterflies,
Smell the scent of rose buds,
And dance;
Dance with the melody of birds singing

I would love to close my eyes and see children smiling
No guns pointing at their heads
Tell them stories of little fairies in far away lands
Not bullets shooting
Missiles exploding

But
How can I?

There is a knife in my heart

I bleed,
I cringe
I cry

HUMANITY, WHERE ARE YOU?

I am being slaughtered
Under your watchful eyes

I am cold… cold…. cold

I cringe
I cry

Humanity, where are you?

Why do you turn your face away?
Why do you keep looking the other way?

I am here

Languishing
In Gaza alleyways

Humanity, where are you?

Look at me
Look at me

I am here
In Gaza alleyways

I cringe
I cry

Humanity,
Enough turning the other way

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serena December 26th, 2008 3:14 pm
It's far worse than humanity turning its face away.

It's LYING--right here on this phony prohgressive site--and saying that the Israelis are not committing genocide against the Palestinians.

As a Native American, I recognize genocide when I see it.

And I have been to the region in question and have seen it.

And no plastic blather of zionists on this site is going to make that reality go away.

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nahida December 26th, 2008 3:43 pm
salam dear Serena

Good people with loving hearts could easily identify good or evil when they see it
Others with hearts of stone see only $$$$$$$$
Be it in form of financial robbery, media control, arms dominance or land theft

The WHOLE world could see who the REAL criminals are
But like fools, they keep denying

They worship only themselves and their clan, blinded by greed, arrogance and hatred; they fail to see how much other humans detest these characteristics

They disregard the rising tide
They ignore the warning signs
================================

Alice in Holy-land

Alice was falling up, then rising down
With a quantum leap, transcending
Into a parallel universe
Were every thing is upside down
And nothing is what it seems to be
In a forgotten land, once called Palestine

In this land of wonders, Alice saw
Murderers get Nobel peace prizes
Thieves are the guardians
Of peace and security
War criminals are the law

In this land of faith, Alice saw
Strangers claiming that
God gave them every thing
For they are the chosen
Above all others
Despite the fact: most of them
Don't even believe in God

In this land of pain, Alice saw
Olive trees uprooted for having roots in the past
Farmers beaten for harvesting their crops
Men shot for wanting to pray
Women imprisoned for having a family
Children killed for going to school
Babies gassed for… being

In this land, of sorrow
Alice saw people in refugee camps
With large rustic keys around their necks
Gazing away in despair
At beautiful, invisible homes in the distance
With no keyholes, no doors, not even walls

In this land of history
Alice saw signs for peace
That only led to war and terror
Road maps, but no roads
Security zones, with no security
Miles long checkpoints, where nothing is checked

In this land of paradox
Alice saw a queen of hearts
Leading an army with hearts of stone
Yet Alice picked up stones
With tender hearts
Stones with tongues
That can dance and even sing

And through the rabbit hole
Alice came out again,
Disorientated and bewildered
Alice was in Holy-land
She went, she saw, she understood

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serena December 26th, 2008 3:57 pm
I agree with everything except calling the folks who deny fools.

They are not fools--they are DELIBERATELY blind to any inconvenient truth.

That makes them astute and dedicated--fools are neither.

I think folks are becoming more dedicated to evil all the time.

Back in 1971, Neil Young was searching for a Heart of Gold. I don't think he found it, but I respect that he wasn't dedicating himself to genocide.

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Ullern December 26th, 2008 1:19 pm
"If Gaza falls..."

How does Gaza fall? Isn't the "insurrections" the bouncings off the bottom after hitting dead bottom? Where could they fall to?

Isn't that the real problem, that the Palestinians have nowhere to "fall" to? That there's no end to real suffering in Gaza with the Isrealis keeping the Palestinians half dead, thickheadedly hoping and thinking this makes the Palestinians calm and content with their lot?

For Isrealis to back down, recognize neighbours' rights and stop being expansive, that's the only possible direction for movement in the Mid-East's murderous stale-mate.

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serena December 26th, 2008 2:51 pm
They don't need no stinkin' badges, gringo: they have the 100% support of YOUR government--as well as most of the phony progressives that post here.

The NEWS--which does manage to be published here in the Third World where, according to one of the divas on this forum, we all live in mud huts (not to mention that our newspapers are carved on rocks everyday and placed in the town squares)--indicates that the Israelis are planning a massive military/police attack on Gaza this week.

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npwr.luv December 25th, 2008 5:25 pm
A N Y O N E who is seriously attempting to

discover the real _ t r u t h _,
separate outright lies from innuendo, or
deliberate misinformation, and disinformation
… should take a gander at HAROLD PINTER's great discussion of same, today on CD.

Namaste

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thong-girl December 25th, 2008 3:09 pm
Denying the holocaust of the thirties and forties is thought to be a crime in certain places, like Austria for one. Yet denying the genocide now being supported by us Yanks, and systematically performed by the Jews in the land around Jerusalem, against the Palestinian people, barely ruffles a feather. I sure have seen the images and read about the first series of incidents, but this is one genocide I have documented myself. You have to be in denial to understand why we have no business supplying bombs so these Jews can bomb people who not only can't defend themselves, but they can't even leave or send their children to safety. Why is one a crime, though most weren't alive, and the second just fine? I think the answer is obvious.

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Letto December 26th, 2008 3:20 am
You seems obsessed with blaming all Israeli Jews, collectively, as people, for being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing of few.

Here is an interesting document that you may find interesting, published by the European Monitoring center on Racism and Xenophobia. (A European Union body)
http://eumc.europa.eu/eumc/material/pub/AS/AS-WorkingDefinition-draft.pd...

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serena December 26th, 2008 3:16 pm
I DO blame all Israeli Jews--and all gringos, for that matter--since you are paying for it, for the genocide against the Palestinians.

I have been there and seen it. I taught Palestinian students in Jordan, too.

What's YOUR eyewitness evidence?

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saphne December 24th, 2008 10:26 pm
HootOwl, check out the Cnionline.org website. It is the Center for the National Interest. It is all about trying educate people about how Israel has been influencing our foreign policy. They send emails with petitions all the time. Everyday more and more people are becoming aware of the situation. I believe this is the poisonous abcess that is at the heart of our problem with terroism and unless we address it there will be no lasting resolution to the problem. As far as Israel is concerned, they are more than happy to have us join them in being the mortal enemies of the Arabs. Google the 'dancing Israelis'

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hootowl December 25th, 2008 1:38 am
Saphne http://www.ifamericansknew.org/ likewise has Israel's numerous crimes against humanity and how much American tax payers pay for them.

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Letto December 25th, 2008 2:06 am
This site has many inaccuracies. Unless your goal is to spread hatred, you shouldn't rely on it as a reliable source.

For example:
============
"While it is widely and correctly reported that the resulting war eventually included five Arab armies, less well known is the fact that throughout this war Zionist forces outnumbered all Arab and Palestinian combatants combined – often by a factor of two to three."

Wikipedia shows that in the initial stage of the war, there were 8 Arab armies, and not 5. Also, the Arab side actually had more combatants than the IDF (Even without including Palestinian sources).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab-Israeli_War

This is but one example. I saw many many many more...

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serena December 26th, 2008 3:18 pm
Take a look at who writes wikipedia.

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stefanleacock December 24th, 2008 8:53 pm
Letto" Everyone knows, including the Hamas and Sara, that the moment the shelling is stopped; humanitarian aid will resumed to the same levels as before November 5th."

Assuming for a moment you're right,Letto, what happens next? Gazans languish for another 50 years in their ghetto? I don't think that passive suffering would work for the Palestinians any better than it did for the Jews in Warsaw. I believe even they launched a revolt which was just as futile as Gaza's rockets.

I also wonder if these rockets that are shot into Israeli towns near Gaza are really Israeli towns or actually illegal settlements on Palestinian land occupied by Israeli's. With the "forget the occupation" bias of western reportage of this conflict it's a valid question. Does anyone know? If so let me know. Thanks.

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Letto December 25th, 2008 1:20 am
2005 Gaza had the same openning position as Singapore had in 1962.

They don't need to suffer. All they have to do is stop trying to exterminate their number one trade partner.

Think Business instead of Jihad.

In case you were wondering, the bombarded Israeli cities and towns (Such as Shderot or Ashkelon) are in pre-1967 Israel. (In the Israeli side of the green line)

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serena December 26th, 2008 3:21 pm
Nonsense!

Business is business, right?

Boycott Israeli goods!

That's what I think of your fatuous free-market imposed genocide.

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hootowl December 25th, 2008 1:32 am
Letto the only reason Israel can be a "number one trade parter" at all is because Israel is subsidized with 3 billion per year tax payer money from America, and American made jets and other military parts. I wonder how long the little empire bully on it's illegally held land Israel would be able to hold onto that land without the big empire bully the U.S. handing money over by the fistful and holding the big stick over the middle east. Hours, days? Certainly not weeks...

I for one want my ten dollars tax payer money back that was used to fund a clip full of bullets for some IDF soldier child murderer:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jan/30/israel1

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Letto December 25th, 2008 1:43 am
I fail to see your point.

Am I to understand you think the Hamas should continue to bomb Israeli civilian targets, reject any peace and do no business with Israel, (ignoring the suffering of the people of gaza) because Israel gets 3 Billion a year from the USA?

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serena December 26th, 2008 3:11 pm
I fail to see your motive for shilling for the zionists here.

Hamas and Gaza are one.

I think Hamas should do anything it possibly can to resist the genocide being applied through STARVING out Gaza.

And I think you, and others like you, who are promoting genocide should be ASHAMED of yourselves.

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hootowl December 25th, 2008 1:55 am
I am saying the only way Israel can illegally hold onto land beyond its recognized under international law borders is that Israel's military is subsidized by 3 billion/year of MY taxpayer dollars. If Israel retreated to it's legal borders and allowed Palestine to build itself as the U.N. has demanded for decades you wouldn't have a terrorism problem as Palesitnians would be too busy building their lives to attack Israel.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/un.html

OTHOH if you leave people starving, without medical care, without representative government and without hope then it doesn't surprise me at all that oppressed people attack their jailers in the vast open air prison much like the Warsaw ghetto that is Gaza. You ought to be deeply ashamed of defending collective punishment when that is exactly what Nazis did to innocent Jewish people during the Holocaust.

Shame on you letto, deep, deep, shame!

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Letto December 25th, 2008 2:34 am
People who spread hatred and lies should be ashamed. Not I.

1. Israel doesn't hold even one single inch of Gaza, legally or illegally. The border between Gaza and Israel IS the internationally recognized border.

2. The Palestinians could have had an independent Palestinian land alongside Israel long ago.

In 1937
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_peel.php
In 1947
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947_UN_Partition_Plan
In 2000
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit

Each time the Palestinian leadership rejected the proposal and went to war.

An independent Palestinian state was never the problem. The problem was the refusal to except an independent Jewish state.

3. Don't rely on http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/un.html as a reliable source.
This is a one sided anti-Zionist hate site, filled with inaccuracies.

4. The Palestinians in Gaza are starving, and suffering humanitarian crises, but whose fault is it?

Do you believe a leadership of a country (or a rebel province) should have a minimal responsibility over the people under their control? Or should they wash their hands off their own actions and only play blame game?

As for comparing Gaza (A Partial siege) to the Nazi holocaust. (Extermination camps, gas chambers, 6 million dead), come on.... Please don't tell me you're a holocaust denier. I would prefer to keep this discussion civilized.

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npwr.luv December 25th, 2008 5:15 pm
L E T T O,

I'm not at all surprised by your admission of not being at all ashamed …

of your own lies and hatred.
It is a breath of fresh air for you to tell the truth for a change.

Namaste

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Letto December 26th, 2008 3:03 am
Who exactly do I hate and where did I lie?

Please explain.

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hootowl December 25th, 2008 2:54 am
And no I am not a Holocaust denier that is slander and I demand you retract it immediately. The fact that Nazi Germany murdered 6 million innocent Jews, gypsies, trade unionists, gays, differently abled people, priests and intellectuals is however no excuse for Israel's own terrorist origin, negotiation with Nazis itself in the 40s, and ongoing crimes against humanity:

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/12/09/for_american_readers_the...

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Letto December 25th, 2008 3:34 am
Thank you for clarifying that you're not a Holocaust denier.

That was one of the logical conclusions when comparing the situation in Gaza (Partial siege) to the Holocaust (Industrial Genocide).

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serena December 26th, 2008 4:00 pm
In no way is it a logical conclusion.

I do not deny the holocaust, either.

But I would like to you tell me, with very specific evidence, PRECISELY when it was committed by the Palestinians.

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hootowl December 25th, 2008 2:48 am
The 2000 offer was a series of discontinuous Buntustans riddled with occupying troops:

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0703/S00049.htm

It was a disingenuous and shameful offer from the start, illegal under international law, and only made as a debate point so Israel could claim it was still negotiating and could whine it was the victim when in fact it is Israel who has destroyed civilians fruit groves and olive groves, killed 4 TIMES as many innocents as even the disgusting suicide bombers:

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/deaths.html

and has murdered little kids with sniper rifles:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/may/20/israel

The whole world is watching letto and as Israel continues it's collective punishment of Gaza, demolishment of homes, murder of reporters in clearly marked vehicles,

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/aug/13/reuters.pressandpublishing

construction of the Apherteid wall which was ruled against by the International Court of Justice ruled to be illegal:

http://www.stopthewall.org/latestnews/637.shtml

and murder of human rights activists like Rachel Corrie, and expelling U.N. inspectors like Richard Falk the worlds loathing and disgust at Israel only intensifies.

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Letto December 25th, 2008 3:25 am
I see that when confronted with real data that disprove your hate agenda, you are becoming desperate and start to shoot in all directions.

I will accept your desperate challenge.

1. Issue 1 - You failed to explain 1947 and 1937.
Also, even if the 2000 proposal is not "fair" according to your eyes, Arafat could have asked to modify the agreement. Instead he went to war.

2. I couldn’t open the link.

I'll try to reply based on what I assumed is written there.
Although many Palestinian civilian died in the conflict, the general rule is that the Palestinian terrorists tries to kill as many Jewish civilians as they can, while using their own population as a human shield. The IDF is trying to kill only Palestinians terrorists, while minimizing the number of civilians killed.

3. That is a blunt lie. I never murdered anyone. I never demolished any house. I never do what you call "collective punish Gaza". What did I do that is considered a collective punishment?

I can call you names too. There are some very nasty names that pop into my mind, you know.

4. The "Wall" is 97% fence and only 3% wall. (Only in Urban centers where there is a risk of direct shooting).
So calling it a wall is 97% inaccurate.

The barrier was build to separate Palestinian suicide bombers from their Israeli civilians victims. The barrier stops between 80% and 100% of the suicide bombers. It saves hundreds of lives a year.

The barrier is temporal and reversible, and will be removed once the Palestinians stop the terror, unlike the lives of the suicide bombers and their victims which can't be brought back.

5. The death of Rachel Corrie was a tragedy. Pleas provide evidence that there was a government decision to murder her.

6. The UN inspector Richard Falk was expelled because he came with a mandate for one-sided mission. To investigate Israel's human right violation in Gaza, while ignoring the human right violations of Hamas against the people of Gaza and the people of southern Israel.

This mission violates the UN human right commission mandate of being impartial.

In short, he came to blame Israel and not to find the truth.

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serena December 26th, 2008 3:22 pm
YOU are posting nothing but hate propaganda against Palestinians here.

Where is the EVIDENCE to back up your outrageous claims of Israeli largesse?

Put it here.

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turfbill December 24th, 2008 3:53 pm
A friend told me that Israel is our only ally in the Middle East.... I said that before Israel we had no enemies in the Middle East.....

Read up on the USS Liberty incident in 1967 and read about what our friends did to peace activist Rachael Corrie....

Shucks, with friends like Israel, who needs enemies.....

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hootowl December 25th, 2008 1:35 am
And many Zionists are quite cruel about the human rights activist they MURDERED if I had a dime for every time some Zionist told a "pancake" joke about about Rachel Corrie who died in intense agony over a long period of time I'd be a rich man. Israel should know the whole world is watching and outside the bubble of U.S. media is universally considered a pariah state by quite literally billions of people on planet earth.

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Letto December 25th, 2008 4:58 am
That is a racist comment.

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hootowl December 25th, 2008 12:46 pm
You mean Zionists making fun of Rachel Corrie? I agree terribly racist and bigoted and I have seen it way too many times. Too many to even count. Hint go on digg.com and search for Rachel Corrie to see Zionist bigotry against human rights activists who painfully died it its full disgusting lack of glory.

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Letto December 26th, 2008 3:25 am
I'm a Zionist. I never heard such jocks. If someone made them (Zionist or Not) - It's disgusting.

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npwr.luv December 26th, 2008 7:07 pm
¿ Is it so hideously disgusting ENOUGH for you to branded an antisemite to attack and/or chastise those cruel terror inspiring Zionists responsible for such reprehensible conduct ?

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serena December 26th, 2008 3:24 pm
You didn't need to tell us that you are a zionist genocidal propaganda plyer.

Jocks? Jocks are athletes.

You are a sick joke with your sanctimonious goody-two-shoes distortion of facts.

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hootowl December 26th, 2008 3:40 am
Thank for you acknowledging that. Sadly this is all too common:

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=Rachel+Corrie+pan...

A google search for Rachel Corrie pancake joke gets 1600 hits. I do apologize for overgeneralizing and implying all Zionists hold that view, it's just discouraging to run into such comments on forum after forum. :(

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yourstruly December 24th, 2008 2:33 pm
Gaza And The Warsaw Ghetto

same place

different time

while the world stood by

genocide

live

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catherine December 24th, 2008 1:46 pm
It will be very hard to get the elected politicians in the U.S. to stop supporting Israel. Like Ariel Sharon said "we own the U.S. congress". Any politician that speaks out against Israeli policy is labeled an Anti-Semite, even though the most vicious anti-semites are the Israeli's themselves. Unfortunately, we will see an increase in Israeli support with the Obama administration even though its hard to believe. Hilary Clinton is very cozy with Israel and good friends with Lynn de Rothschild, the London Banking tycoon, Evelyn de rothschild's wife. Hilary is already talking that she wants to "make a very powerful State Department and increase its budget". They have utter control over governments through control of finance. The U.S. in the last 60 years was set up to be the military arm of this World Order Cabal of Elitist families that are still running the world. It is the American kids that are sent to the front lines to kill and be killed, not for Freedom or Liberty but to maintain the status Quo of the elite's power structure.

But, there are more and more cracks in their armour as we have seen over the last several months. It has been said that these People knew there were risks in "allowing" the free speech on the internet, but apparently this window of opportunity will be closed in the coming years. I think enough people have been armed with the truth about the government structure and what it is actually all about. But still, I think we are coming to a huge precipous that will likely swallow at least a third of humanity. It is doubtful that those MOST responsible for the crimes against humanity will ever be served justice in a worldly sense. One elite's downfall, is an opportunity for another rising elitist. And so it goes....round and round, a never ending cycle. And the masses are either too ignorant or too strapped with daily survival to ever really get out of their holes.

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haddms0a December 24th, 2008 1:08 pm
Thank you Sara for having the courage that many people who know the truth lack. Every single word you mentioned is true. I am writing this comment from the middle of GAZA. We have no electricity for 12-17 hours per day and when it come it is only for 2-6 hours only. I am using a generator to write this comment. 90% of bakeries are closed,but if you are lucky and find one opened then expect a long line. I can only pray for GOD to be on our side as we no longer have hope from anyone else. This is a real genocide and mass killing of 1.5 million people in front of the whole world. I can say no more than you have already mentioned but I am ready to give any facts from the heart of dying GAZA.

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Letto December 25th, 2008 1:31 am
First of all I would like to say that I feel sorry for you and for all the innocent people in Gaza who suffer horribly. From the way things looks, it seems as if it will be even worse soon. I hope to see a better future to both Palestinians and Israelis, a future where no one suffers from the horrors of war.

However, as someone who lives in Gaza, I do have one question for you.
Do you think there is any connection between the fact the Hamas and the Islamic Jihad are firing rockets at Israeli civilian targets and your suffering?

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hootowl December 25th, 2008 1:57 am
Maybe if israel would retreat back to the 1967 border which is it's legal border according to U.N. resolutions like 242, as well the Geneva conventions that forbid countries from gaining land through war you wouldn't have so many freedom fighters at your border letto. Just one more question letto did you get the call on megaphone?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaphone_desktop_tool

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Letto December 25th, 2008 2:54 am
Israel has complied with UN resolution 242 already in 1974 and again in 1977.

Your "Freedom Fighters" believe Israel, all of it, should be exterminated, and be replaced with a taliban style Islamic republic.
Your "freedom fighters" claim they have natural right to randomly kill Jews.
The Geneva conventions also forhibit targeting civilian the way your "freedom fighters" does.

As for your last question. The answer is no.

Now, if I may ask you a question too:
Are you being payed by dirty OIL money spread hate against Israel? Did you get a nice "donation"?

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serena December 26th, 2008 4:04 pm
Israel has given the finger to EVERY UN resolution.

And you, sir or madame, are simply a liar.

How dare you come on this site and accuse folks of being paid to have a conscience that you do not have?

You are, in fact, one example of why militant Jews have not always been welcome.

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hootowl December 25th, 2008 3:00 am
The reason I dislike Zionists is an honest hard leftist distaste for crimes against humanity and people who consistently try to hair split, lawyer and disingenuously weasel on behalf of Israel taking responsibility for its crimes while people are starving and dying. I am paid by no one for the political positions I hold, can you say the same?

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Letto December 25th, 2008 3:47 am
Yes. I can say the same. I'm NOT being payed by anyone to promote any political position.

Also, you may find out that not all Zionists are the same. There are leftist Zionists as well (Not all). There are many Israeli human right organizations. Some oppose the Israeli government. Some even try to break the siege on Gaza.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism

In my mind. Zionist is someone who believe Jews have a right for self determination like any other nation. Meaning, Israel has a right to exists.

That doesn't mean Israel is always right, or that Israel has a right to expel anyone or steal / occupy lands.

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Letto December 24th, 2008 2:48 am
“Israel's siege has two fundamental goals. One is to ensure that the Palestinians there are seen merely as a humanitarian problem, beggars who have no political identity and therefore can have no political claims. The second is to foist Gaza onto Egypt.”
by Sara Roy

First of all Gaza is under Israeli partial siege. I repeat… PARTIAL. P-A-R-T-I-A-L Because water, electricity and some humanitarian aid does cross the border from Israel and beside, Gaza has a common border with Egypt, which is not under Israeli control.

Sara Roy has the wrong conclusion as for the reason behind the partial siege. The real reason is to convince the Hamas to stop firing rockets and mortar bomb into Israeli civilian targets. (By the way, indiscriminate shelling of civilian targets is considered a war crime according to the 4th Geneva Convention. But that is probably not worth mentioning, after all we are talking about Israelis.)

Everyone knows, including the Hamas and Sara, that the moment the shelling is stopped; humanitarian aid will resumed to the same levels as before November 5th.

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hootowl December 25th, 2008 2:09 am
Why should the Palestinians agree to let Israel hold land that isn't theirs in the first place which is the status quo you are advocating for letto? If Israel invaded and occupied parts of the U.S. I'd fire rockets at Israel occupying troops too. As the aggressor nation state illegally occupying land, the onus is on Israel to obey international law and retreat to it's U.N. recognized borders FIRST. Need I remind you letto that it was the U.N. that allowed for the creation of Israel in the first place after Irgun and Stern gang terrorists invented the car bomb, bombed a hotel and killed innocents on the sidewalk, engaged in bank robberies, and attempted to negotiate with the Nazis to fight on the axis side against Britain?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)

http://www.thejc.com/articles/we-invented-car-bomb

Considering the dark origin of Israel in terrorism and attempted collaboration with the Nazis IMO it's very generous that the U.N. has allowed for Israel to exist at all. IMO Israel's leaders ought to be humble and grateful they are allowed to exist at the 1949 green line border, which is a fair settlement that Israel's government is unfortunately is too pigheaded to see.

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Letto December 25th, 2008 4:53 am
"Why should the Palestinians agree to let Israel hold land that isn't theirs in the first place."

This is a complex question. The answer depends on how far you look back.
In the last 60 years, Israel was a Jewish state.
Before that, it was under British Mandate (Where the Palestinians were the majority)
Before that, it was under Ottoman Empire, The Seljuk, the Crusaders, the Arabs, the Romans, the Jews, Greek, Persians, Babylonians, Jews again, Canaanites etc.

If you ask a Palestinian, he will say that Jews are invaders, who have no right to live in Israel.
If you ask a Jew, he will say he returned to his homeland after many years in exile.

Both are right.

" which is the status quo you are advocating for letto?"
Look at the situation as it is now. Try to find a win-win solution where both sides improve their current situation.

Don't try to turn the clock back to the time that best suited one side.

----
"As the aggressor nation state illegally occupying land, the onus is on Israel to obey international law and retreat to it's U.N. recognized borders FIRST."

OK, Now tell me what are the U.N recognized borders?
----

"I remind you letto that it was the U.N. that allowed for the creation of Israel in the first place after Irgun and Stern gang terrorists invented the car bomb, bombed a hotel and killed innocents on the sidewalk, engaged in bank robberies, and attempted to negotiate with the Nazis to fight on the axis side against Britain?"

First of all I don't support the Lehi (What you call Stern gang) I never said all Jews were always saints.

There are some facts though, you may want to set up straight (that is if you are interested in data even if it doesn't match your anti-Israeli agenda).

1. The hotel bombing you refer too, is probably "King David" which was the headquarters of the Occupying British Army in Palestine. Hence, it wasn't a purely civilian target.
2. Car Bombing was first used in Italy, and WAS NOT invented by Jews in Palestine as you falsely claims.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_bomb
3. The Lehi (A minor organization within the Jewish yeshov, tiny when compared to the Hagana and the Irgun) was fighting to free Israel from Britain. They stopped the negotiation with Nazi Germany as soon as they heard about the holocaust in 1941.
There was no collaboration. (Initial negotiation by a minor group is NOT collaboration. Not to the same extant as the Palestinian leadership full collaboration and participation in the Holocaust. - i.e. haj Amin Al Hussaini)

---------

"Considering the dark origin of Israel in terrorism and attempted collaboration with the Nazis IMO it's very generous that the U.N. has allowed for Israel to exist at all."

I disagree with your conclusion that Israel's origin was darker than the origin of any other nation. I don't know why you are so obsessed with the Lehi initial negotiations (Not collaboration) with the Nazis during 1939, 1940, while ignoring the fact that the vast majority of the Jewish Yeshuv in Palestine fought Nazi Germany with the British.

Also the UN didn't allow Israel to exist. What allowed Israel to exist was the IDF. (The UN didn't sent a single soldier to protect UN resolution 181 against the invading Arab armies)

----

"Israel's leaders ought to be humble and grateful they are allowed to exist at the 1949 green line border, which is a fair settlement that Israel's government is unfortunately is too pigheaded to see."

I don't think the 1949 lines are optimal. There are 1/2 million Jews in the Palestinian side of that proposed border, and 1.2 million Palestinians in the Israeli side of that line.

I my opinion, the border should be based on the 1949 lines, with some modifications on both sides. But that negotiation should be left for the Palestinians and Israelis, and NOT for you and me.

Peace.

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hootowl December 26th, 2008 12:13 am
That was ALMOST reasonable dude (assuming you are a male). You only left out the part that the organization that is vested with the authority to determine nations borders the U.N. has clearly and unambiguously stated that Israel's proper borders are at the green line. However I DO appreciate you taking a more nuanced stance in that response in the spirit of improved communications wish you a happy Hanukkah.

Know too today I watched Valkarie today at the movies and that I am in no way, shape or form an anti Semite or Nazi sympathizer as a lefty direction action activist who has been arrested trying to save old growth Redwood trees in California.

My ideal solution would be for Israel to retreat to the green line and you build a wall just inside the green line to protect from terrorist attacks as I believe all CIVILIANS on BOTH sides deserve safety and security. I would also say if the Palestinians continue to attack Israel after they are granted a contiguous state with no occupying IDF troops or settlers THEN you would have a right to retaliate, but not before when Israel still holds illegal land. It is my sincere hope that both sides come to their senses and we see some pragmatic solution along those lines.

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Letto December 26th, 2008 3:54 am
Yes I'm a male.

Please show me where exactly the UN has clearly and unambiguously stated that Israel's proper borders are at the green line? A UN Security Consul resolution number will suffice. (Don't bother with non-binding discussions within the General Assembly or other non-binding forums.)

As for your ideal solution, and your comment on the "wall":
Justified or not, today about 1/2 a million Jews are living in the west bank. The (temporal) barrier should protect their lives too. Also, when drawing lines, you have to take them into account. Evicting 1/2 a million people against their will may not be so easy to implement. That is why I suggested a land swap as a better solution, as part of an agreement that both sides agrees to.

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hootowl December 26th, 2008 5:24 pm
"today about 1/2 a million Jews are ILLEGALLY under international law living in the west bank"

I corrected your post, letto you're welcome.

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serena December 26th, 2008 4:10 pm
Ah, the old "non-binding" means it doesn't count for the Little Bully bs. While the Big Bully imposes itself and its veto on the Security Counsel.

Since it was the Brits who created this zionist disaster by their irresponsibility in administering the Palestine Mandate, my proposal is--and has been for many years:

DE-COUNTRIFY Israel and put the zionists in West Midlands.

Sink or swim.

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azjoe December 24th, 2008 12:05 am
I wish Israel Happy Hanukkah.

Of course the slow grinding starvation of Palestine is contemptible, Gaza's lynching is a Crime against Humanity.

When Cheney and Israel were pushing for the U.S. to strike Iran, I read ONE THOUSAND Israeli lobbyists were in D.C....I could not believe that is legal....

Maybe fixing the problem would start with changing that. But the AIE would assault the effort. Israeli lobbyists would rally. The editorials would start.

It is Israel's and the American Jewish community's very well coordinated efforts to block any change to the current Israeli-U.S. relationship that is cementing the Hells of
Gaza and the West Bank.

But still best wishes to Israel.

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Siouxrose December 23rd, 2008 7:22 pm
Sioux Rose

It's tragic for any people to suffer, and then take from that suffering all of the wrong lessons. Marianne Williamson and The Course in Miracles relate that human beings primarily have two choices of response pattern: love-based or fear-based. Whenever the latter is chosen, someone suffers. How then to make love more common in our world than militarism, which is fear-based, and quell the desire in some to believe they have a greater claim to necessities than others?

To my way of thinking, this particular Christmas is emblematic for the grotesque way our own congress-people allotted to the wealthiest (bankers) what should have gone to those in need. It is beyond the pale that thinking people (presumably) would think, do, act, and legislate so wrongly.

There are universal laws, and when they are violated for a length of time, the forces of something Higher come into play. No nation is immune to the law of karma nor above Universal Justice. Those with the big weapons are playing as if they were gods, acting with hubris to bring phenomenal suffering upon others.

It's conceivable that the many who pray to Allah are seeing their justice in America's current financial crisis. I would imagine if Israel keeps it up, and fails to "take down that wall!" it, too, will see the bottom drop out on the security it likes to champion at others' expense.

What is it that makes people see the evidence of history and still think they can act with impunity against the self-evident Truths revealed?

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serena December 26th, 2008 3:30 pm
Why would Muslims see THEIR justice in the US's current financial crisis?

How is YOUR tax money being used to bail out cronies of the current administration bringing justice to the Muslim community?

And finally, who appointed you GOD?

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hootowl December 23rd, 2008 11:41 pm
Uh yeah hope for karmic revenge, that sure will help Gazans suffering under Israel's heavy handed oppression. That and $2.50 will get you a cup of coffee at a pretentious cafe.

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Siouxrose December 24th, 2008 1:09 pm
Sioux Rose

HOOT OWL: It's not revenge, it's universal law. You project your own negativity and misquote my meaning.

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serena December 26th, 2008 3:33 pm
It looks as if Hoot is getting as tired of your sanctimonious self-promotion as I am.

Of course I could be wrong. (I have not been appointed Keeper of Karma and Predicator of Progressive Pap.)

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curmudgeon99 December 23rd, 2008 5:28 pm
And all being said, our complicity makes each and every one of us responsible for crimes against humanity, since we have done NOTHING to condemn or correct the situation. Instead, we keep funding the acts of inhumanity through our unquestioning support of Israeli policy. Even many Israelis condemn us for this because it prevents their voice being heard.

But I could be wrong !

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hootowl December 23rd, 2008 11:39 pm
I don't understand why there isn't a petition to zero out" aid" to Israel to commit crimes against humanity and give it to American auto workers many of whom are being idled for the holidays and the month of January. I know where I'd rather see my money going. Anyone know how to start a petition on say the petition site and how to get the wording legally correct?

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serena December 26th, 2008 3:35 pm
I DO understand.

The zionists are calling the shots in the US.

Look at Bush's Gang of Genocidal Thieves.

And then look how similar it is to Obama's soon-to-be Gang of Genocidal Thieves.

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hootowl December 26th, 2008 5:26 pm
Very true on Obama's horrible cabinet appointees. :(

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mcurie December 23rd, 2008 2:04 pm
This truly sounds like collective punishment of the Palestinians, and genocide.
Where have we heard "collective punishment" and "genocide" before? But now the abused have become the abusers, the punished the punishers, the killed the killers.

And of course, America and Europe and all who look the other way including the US Congress are complicit in this by their silence, and by arming and funding the perpetrator of these crimes against humanity.

Dr Roy, you have courage to tell these truths.
Thank you.

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GwNorth December 23rd, 2008 1:16 pm
I agree poet. There would have been a just peace YEARS ago if the western powers had truly acted as honest brokers here and brought pressure on Israel to comply with security council resolutions and the principles of justice.

It was Europe and the West that helped create this problem by foisting their "Jewish Problem" onto the peoples of Palestine.

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Poet December 23rd, 2008 12:47 pm
So before the devout anti-Zioonists start spewing their venom (and on this much I agree with them--the behavior of the Israeli government towards all Palestinians in any of the captured territories they refuse to return has been reprehensible and unconscienable) I would like to say that the US, Britain, and the EU share equally in the blame for this mess along with Israel.

This is so because without the billions in trade and aid given to Israel and the selective deafness, muteness, and blindness to such attrocities as take place daily in Gaza and all other occupied territories, a solution to this situation could have been found a long time ago.

Just as surely as the driver of a getaway car or the crowd of drunks that cheers on a pooltable rapist in a bar, our countries are accomplices to a terrible crime.

Poet

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hootowl December 23rd, 2008 11:43 pm
So HOW do we stop the U.S. from supporting Israel's crimes against humanity?

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ceti December 23rd, 2008 5:39 pm
True, Nazi Germany had its active appeasers and enablers.

What's happening here can only be compared to the strangulation of the Ghettos in occupied Eastern Europe during WWII. The tactics are the same, and the threat to invade to enact a final solution for Hamas also sounds familiar.

And the World turns its eyes away.

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Letto December 24th, 2008 2:36 am
Yes, You’re right it is identical.

Ceti, you’re 100% right! The Hamas control over Gaza is identical to the situation of the Jews of Eastern Europe during the holocaust.

It is a well known established fact that the Jews were bombing German civilian targets, with thousands of rockets and mortar bombs every day for eight years. The Jews sent hundreds of suicide bombers to kill German children in school buses, restaurants and night clubs. The Jewish leadership claimed that Germany has no right to exist, and that the only solution to the German problem is a holy war which will exterminate Germany, and establish a German clean Jewish Ultra orthodox theocracy on Germany’s ruins.

During the holocaust, 1.2 million Jews had German citizenship, and they enjoyed freedom of religion and speech, and had the right to elect, and be elected to the German Reichstag.

At some point during WWII, Germany decided to withdraw from Poland, and resettle all the German who lived in Poland within Germany.

But that didn’t stop the Jewish militant who continued bombing German civilian town and cities.

In retaliation to the bombing, and in an attempt to convince the Jewish leadership to stop shelling Germany, Germany reduced the amount of diesel and food to the Jewish Ghettos, even though they still continue to provide electricity and some humanitarian aid. Also Germany had no control of the Jewish Ghettos borders with the Soviet Union.

Of course, during WWII there were no gas chambers, crematoriums, and mass killing. In fact, the number of Jews killed in the fighting was a few hundreds, most of them Jewish millitants, and NOT 6 millions as some people claim.

Did I mantion the miltray coupe where the Jewish Orthdox killed a few hundred Jewish conservatives and reforms and took control over the Ghettos by force?

Am I right ceti?

Indeed identical.

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Ullern December 26th, 2008 1:05 pm
Wow. Now THERE's someone who really got reality upside-down... Impressive.

Someone must've been seduced and sucked off by boy-scout leaders with wide nazi-streaks spouting wildly inventive tales of how Hitler really should have won WWII. And how the jews and the devil are best buddies.

(But that somehow doesn't mean the Palestinians deserve sympathy - his erect boy-scout leader clearly asserts the Palstinians got into their mess on their own and should be left on their own and not allowed to breathe. Or maybe he said "breed".)

For real, the jews are of course descendents of Leprechauns, and have spread out from Ireland to everywhere in the world where there's a happy glade. Some of them bomb, though many of them become Nobel laureates.

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npwr.luv December 24th, 2008 2:45 pm
L E T T O,

Your lies have reached a new crescendo of ludicrousity:

"thousands of rockets and mortar bombs every day for eight years."

Thanks for aiding us to calibrate your veracity

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Letto December 25th, 2008 12:18 am
My apologies npwr.luv. It's a grammatical error. I should have put a comma before the word 'every'.

Thank you for bringing up (only) this issue.

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serena December 26th, 2008 4:13 pm
I for one am convinced that Letto is, in fact:

a PAID SHILL for Israel.

He blew it when he accused another poster--and we all know how much projection takes place on these threads. (There are all sorts of parlor psychologists here to conveniently tell us that--whenever they can't refute a logical argument.)

Busted, buster.

Now beat it.

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