When it comes to homeownership, Hispanics in New Jersey, single parents in California and senior citizens in Rhode Island all have something in common: More than a third have an unaffordable mortgage.
Inequality in America has traditionally followed familiar patterns of race, age and education. Those long-standing gaps have been magnified by the real estate boom and now the historic bust, according to an Associated Press analysis of 2007 Census Bureau data.
While minorities have made significant gains in wealth and home ownership since 1990, "things are going into reverse gear," and now the homeownership rate for blacks and Hispanics
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is falling, said Edward Wolff, a New York University economist who studies income and wealth distribution.
Nearly 9.5 million households, or nearly one out of every five of the nearly 52 million homeowners with a mortgage, spend 38 percent or more of their pretax income on their mortgage payment, property taxes and insurance, the AP's analysis found. That's the new threshold to qualify for the loan assistance program launched last month by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the mortgage finance companies now under government control.
Not surprisingly, the most financially burdened are in California, Florida, Nevada and the Northeast, areas hardest hit by soaring home prices and now foreclosures.
Yet in every state, there are many pockets of homeowners who are just one unexpected medical bill or car repair from falling behind on their mortgages and setting the foreclosure clock ticking.
The AP's analysis reveals the enormous scope of the U.S. housing market bust and how unevenly the burdens are spread, both geographically and demographically. And the situation is worsening -- a record 10 percent of U.S. homeowners with a mortgage are at least one payment behind or were in foreclosure as of last fall, compared with 7.5 percent a year earlier and just under 6 percent in 2006.
The burden is clearly more arduous among minority households, the AP analysis found.
Just under a third of Hispanic homeowners spend at least 38 percent of their income on housing expenses, compared with about a quarter of Asian and black households and nearly 16 percent of white households.
In much of the country, the trend is more pronounced. For example, included among those who spent at least 38 percent of their income on housing are:
About 40 percent of black borrowers in California, Nevada, Oregon and Massachusetts.
More than 30 percent of Asian borrowers in California and Florida.
Nearly half of Hispanic homeowners in Rhode Island and at least 40 percent in Alaska, California, Florida, Hawaii, Maryland, New Jersey and New York.
Many Latino families wound up with expensive subprime mortgages because they often have cash income and no bank account, said Janis Bowdler, associate director for wealth building at National Council of La Raza in Washington.
It is common for Latino families to have stable incomes, but limited credit histories -- and hence lower credit scores, which lenders use to gauge risk. Many have multiple sources of income,
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some of it in cash.
During the housing boom, consumer advocates say it was both faster and more profitable for mortgage brokers and loan officers to put Hispanic families in loans that didn't require proof of income, but charged higher interest rates.
"They had them out the door in a fraction of the time," Bowdler said. "They were definitely getting more expensive loans."
Now, Hispanic households like the Cazares family of Visalia, Calif are caught up in the mortgage crisis. Out of work for more than a year after contracting a rare disease caused by an airborne fungus, Joel, 36, brings in $550 a week in disability payments. His wife Maria, 34, makes about that much money weekly by working as a hair stylist.
They haven't made their $2,500 home loan payment in four months. The couple, who have three kids, have been waiting since October for a loan modification from IndyMac Bank, which was seized by the federal government last July. They hope it will bring their payment down to a more manageable level of around of $1,500.
In the meantime, they buy supersized bags of generic cereal to make ends meet. They've canceled their Internet service and are only using one of their two cars, a pickup truck, because it gets better gas mileage.
Our money's like a piece of gum," Joel Cazares said. "We're making it stretch as far and as long as we can."
The AP's analysis also found that education level is highly correlated with income and mortgage expenses. Nearly one in three of those without a high school or college diploma spend at least 38 percent of their income on housing, compared with only 12 percent of those with advanced degrees, the AP analysis found.
In addition, seniors spent a far higher share of their income on housing than any other age group.
While about half of seniors own their homes outright, the other half often face financial challenges and diminished earning potential.
Among seniors with a mortgage, nearly three in 10 spend at least 38 percent of their income on housing, according to the AP analysis. The stress is most severe in nine states: California, Washington D.C., Florida, Massachusetts, Nevada, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island and Vermont.
As the pain from the mortgage crisis spreads, Washington is abuzz with talk of new efforts to stabilize the housing market and stop the freefall in home prices. President-elect Barack Obama has pledged to direct up to $100 billion in financial bailout money toward a sweeping effort to prevent foreclosures.
Frustrated housing counselors around the country
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say that if the Bush administration had grasped the severity of the foreclosure crisis earlier and enacted more ambitious programs long ago, the pain for American families and the economy might not be so severe.
"So far, we haven't seen the mortgage products or resources that we really need to help people who are at risk of losing their homes," said Brenda Clement, executive director of the Housing Action Coalition of Rhode Island.
To be sure, housing counselors acknowledge that some borrowers only have themselves to blame. They clearly got in over their heads and many knowingly took out risky loans. But they also say that mortgage brokers and lenders took advantage of the elderly, immigrants and the unsophisticated.
For decades, the government and most lenders considered homeowners who spent 30 percent or more of their income on housing to be financially strapped.
But that rule of thumb got thrown out the window during the housing boom. When prices were soaring, many Americans could only afford to buy a home by taking out ever-riskier home loans. Lenders were happy to cooperate, because if the homeowner defaulted, the property could still be sold for enough money to cover the loan.
House-rich and giddy, American attitudes about debt and the risks that go with it changed dramatically.
"The average American is in hock up to his eyeballs," said David Wyss, chief economist at Standard & Poor's in New York.
That's especially true now that prices are falling and around 13 million households, or about one in four with a mortgage, owes more to the bank than their properties are worth, according to Mark Zandi, chief economist at economic forecasting firm Moody's Economy.com
One of those "underwater" borrowers is Heather Noble, 36, who lives outside Detroit and can see five foreclosures from her front porch. A single mother, she struggled to make her mortgage payment since being laid off from her job in October 2007.
Late last summer, she started a $17-an-hour job handling billing for a doctor's office, but making her home loan payment of around $1,000 a month was a stretch because her take-home pay is at most $1,600 a month, depending on the amount of time she works.
Starting last spring, she spent hour after hour on the phone talking to what she describes as "every human being and division possible" at JPMorgan Chase & Co., before obtaining approval for a loan modification.
Noble's modification had been held up until the fall, and she was actually blocked from making her monthly payment until the Associated Press made an inquiry into
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her case. "In the large volumes that we're handling, we occasionally will miss something," spokesman Tom Kelly said.
Her two home loans have now been modified. Effective Feb 1., her new monthly payment will be a much more affordable $683 a month.
"That I can pay," she said. "Now I can pay my bills and stay current and not worry about losing my house."
Among single parents like Noble, more than a quarter in Michigan and about 27 percent nationwide spend at least 38 percent of their income on housing. And in California the strain is far worse: About four in 10 single parents meet that threshold.
And what worries Avis Holmes, director of Detroit Non-Profit Housing Corp. in Detroit, is that much of the government's financial aid isn't targeted at those who are in the greatest danger of losing their homes.
So far, Holmes said, "there are no rescue funds for the homeowners."
----
AP Data Specialist Allen Chen contributed to this report.
According to CNN, Obama is hoping to inject the country with another stimulus package. (Around 500 billion dollars)
I'm just wondering about everyones opinion about it.
We are already in a deep, deep hole financially. The government has been buying companies, bailing out companies, and creating stimulus packages for the country.
The last stimulus package did little, obviously. Normally, people learn from their mistakes, but I guess this government doesn't. Where is all this money going to come from? And if there is another stimulus package, will people not most likley spend it on their mortgage and debts? Not to buy things?
How will it help?
The question is not what your country can do for you...
but how they are misleading you.
Its a catch-22.
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Thursday, January 01, 2009 1:50 PM Reply
dustin
M/29
WILLOUGHBY, Ohio, US
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im not a real big fan of these stimulus packages or bailouts.
its such a waste. glen beck pointed out on his tv show that when they sent out the notices to tell us they would be sending a check during the last stimulus it cost like 8 million bucks just for postage. not to mention all the pork they load these bills with. and the word thats been going around the forum is that illegal aliens are gonna be the ones getting hired to do all this infrastructure rebulding.
it is obvious that the last stimulus did nothing to improve our economy.
its time to stop the spending.
i was in favor of the auto bailout though even before the republicans jumped on. there are good arguments for boths sides on that issue. pres bush was right that during normal economic times a bailout should not happen but these arent normal conditions. it would be irresponsible to let them go under at a time like this. if we lose our domestic car companies it pretty much marks the end for america. we should keep the car companies going. we invented cars. now its to the point where our car companies cant even survive.
thanks to all the foreign car buyers.
i hope u know u did your country a real huge favor by buying japanese and german cars to the point u almost put american car companies out of business and they would be out of business if bush didnt save them.
thank u president bush but once again u go unappreciated.
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Thursday, January 01, 2009 2:12 PM Reply
Lisa :
F/19
Coast , UM
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dustin: im not a real big fan of these stimulus packages or bailouts.
its such a waste. glen beck pointed out on his tv show that when they sent out the notices to tell us they would be sending a check during the last stimulus it cost like 8 million bucks just for postage. not to mention all the pork they load these bills with. and the word thats been going around the forum is that illegal aliens are gonna be the ones getting hired to do all this infrastructure rebulding.
it is obvious that the last stimulus did nothing to improve our economy.
its time to stop the spending.
i was in favor of the auto bailout though even before the republicans jumped on. there are good arguments for boths sides on that issue. pres bush was right that during normal economic times a bailout should not happen but these arent normal conditions. it would be irresponsible to let them go under at a time like this. if we lose our domestic car companies it pretty much marks the end for america. we should keep the car companies going. we invented cars. now its to the point where our car companies cant even survive.
thanks to all the foreign car buyers.
i hope u know u did your country a real huge favor by buying japanese and german cars to the point u almost put american car companies out of business and they would be out of business if bush didnt save them.
thank u president bush but once again u go unappreciated.
Actually, I have a GMC truck too.
And I don't buy chinese. I try to avoid that. I buy as much american as i can find.
And so does my family.
The question is not what your country can do for you...
but how they are misleading you.
Its a catch-22.
[Report Abuse]
Thursday, January 01, 2009 2:44 PM Reply
Blvdbandit
M/33
Garfield Hts., Ohio, US
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Ford and Chevy are the only vehicles I've ever owned.
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Thursday, January 01, 2009 2:45 PM Reply
dustin
M/29
WILLOUGHBY, Ohio, US
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Lisa ::
dustin: im not a real big fan of these stimulus packages or bailouts.
its such a waste. glen beck pointed out on his tv show that when they sent out the notices to tell us they would be sending a check during the last stimulus it cost like 8 million bucks just for postage. not to mention all the pork they load these bills with. and the word thats been going around the forum is that illegal aliens are gonna be the ones getting hired to do all this infrastructure rebulding.
it is obvious that the last stimulus did nothing to improve our economy.
its time to stop the spending.
i was in favor of the auto bailout though even before the republicans jumped on. there are good arguments for boths sides on that issue. pres bush was right that during normal economic times a bailout should not happen but these arent normal conditions. it would be irresponsible to let them go under at a time like this. if we lose our domestic car companies it pretty much marks the end for america. we should keep the car companies going. we invented cars. now its to the point where our car companies cant even survive.
thanks to all the foreign car buyers.
i hope u know u did your country a real huge favor by buying japanese and german cars to the point u almost put american car companies out of business and they would be out of business if bush didnt save them.
thank u president bush but once again u go unappreciated.
Actually, I have a GMC truck too.
And I don't buy chinese. I try to avoid that. I buy as much american as i can find.
And so does my family.
i didnt direct that at u specifically.
just the ones who bought asian.
they know who they are.
im sure they will lash out at me for it once they see what i typed.
i hope u like your truck.
i prefer ford myself when it comes to a full size pick up.
me personally ived only owned used p.o.s. cars. but they have all been american.
i think 1600 was the most i ever paid for a car.
i could afford a car payment but not a car payment and a mortgage too.
by not having a car payment i was able to save money to buy a house.
a car payment would equal like 37% of what my mortgage is.
it doesnt make sense for me to have a new car.
a car payment would have kept me trapped renting or cause me to overburden myself with debt which i have already done with my credit cards since buying my house.
the market is flooded with too many cars and not enough drivers for one thing.
and another is that too many ppl buy foreign cars.
but im stuck driving used junk.
my ride is a 94 bonneville with 170,000 miles and still going strong as ever.
i can easily see it lasting me a few more years and many many miles.
it had 129,000 miles when i bought it 4 years ago for 1200 bucks.
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Thursday, January 01, 2009 2:53 PM Reply
Lisa :
F/19
Coast , UM
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dustin:
Lisa ::
dustin: im not a real big fan of these stimulus packages or bailouts.
its such a waste. glen beck pointed out on his tv show that when they sent out the notices to tell us they would be sending a check during the last stimulus it cost like 8 million bucks just for postage. not to mention all the pork they load these bills with. and the word thats been going around the forum is that illegal aliens are gonna be the ones getting hired to do all this infrastructure rebulding.
it is obvious that the last stimulus did nothing to improve our economy.
its time to stop the spending.
i was in favor of the auto bailout though even before the republicans jumped on. there are good arguments for boths sides on that issue. pres bush was right that during normal economic times a bailout should not happen but these arent normal conditions. it would be irresponsible to let them go under at a time like this. if we lose our domestic car companies it pretty much marks the end for america. we should keep the car companies going. we invented cars. now its to the point where our car companies cant even survive.
thanks to all the foreign car buyers.
i hope u know u did your country a real huge favor by buying japanese and german cars to the point u almost put american car companies out of business and they would be out of business if bush didnt save them.
thank u president bush but once again u go unappreciated.
Actually, I have a GMC truck too.
And I don't buy chinese. I try to avoid that. I buy as much american as i can find.
And so does my family.
i didnt direct that at u specifically.
just the ones who bought asian.
they know who they are.
im sure they will lash out at me for it once they see what i typed.
i hope u like your truck.
i prefer ford myself when it comes to a full size pick up.
me personally ived only owned used p.o.s. cars. but they have all been american.
i think 1600 was the most i ever paid for a car.
i could afford a car payment but not a car payment and a mortgage too.
by not having a car payment i was able to save money to buy a house.
a car payment would equal like 37% of what my mortgage is.
it doesnt make sense for me to have a new car.
a car payment would have kept me trapped renting or cause me to overburden myself with debt which i have already done with my credit cards since buying my house.
the market is flooded with too many cars and not enough drivers for one thing.
and another is that too many ppl buy foreign cars.
but im stuck driving used junk.
my ride is a 94 bonneville with 170,000 miles and still going strong as ever.
i can easily see it lasting me a few more years and many many miles.
it had 129,000 miles when i bought it 4 years ago for 1200 bucks.
That is pretty good. And about the bail out plan for auto companies...
why are we bailing them out? So they can make more cars to put in the numerous overcrowded veichle lots that house cars that Americans and the rest of the world are not buying?
And just wondering... why can't the people vote if they want a stimulus package, or if the auto companies should be bailed out????
Whyyyy?? It is our money that they are using. Shouldn't we have a say in where it goes? Shouldnt we be able to do somthing??
The question is not what your country can do for you...
but how they are misleading you.
Its a catch-22.
[Report Abuse]
Thursday, January 01, 2009 3:02 PM Reply
JAMES
M/60
PITTSBURGH, Pennsylvania, US
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dustin: im not a real big fan of these stimulus packages or bailouts.
its such a waste.
Have you reviewed the objectives and salient features of the proposed stimulus program?
I didn't think so.
dustin: glen beck pointed out on his tv show that when they sent out the notices to tell us they would be sending a check during the last stimulus it cost like 8 million bucks just for postage.
Well...Glen Beck.
Some of us got letters but no checks, since the rebates were indexed to income.
dustin: not to mention all the pork they load these bills with. and the word thats been going around the forum is that illegal aliens are gonna be the ones getting hired to do all this infrastructure rebulding.
Oh. It's going around these forums.
I'd kinda doubt it, since one of the objectives is to create jobs for Americans, doing things America needs.
dustin: it is obvious that the last stimulus did nothing to improve our economy.
The last stimulus, under entirely different circumstances, was a token effort.
dustin: its time to stop the spending.
Oh, we did that.
Consumers aren't spending, business isn't hiring, lenders aren't lending, corporations are not investing, inventories are going begging, production is shrinking....
Returning growth to the economy requires stimulating activity.
By spending.
dustin: i was in favor of the auto bailout though even before the republicans jumped on. there are good arguments for boths sides on that issue. pres bush was right that during normal economic times a bailout should not happen but these arent normal conditions. it would be irresponsible to let them go under at a time like this. if we lose our domestic car companies it pretty much marks the end for america. we should keep the car companies going. we invented cars. now its to the point where our car companies cant even survive.
thanks to all the foreign car buyers.
i hope u know u did your country a real huge favor by buying japanese and german cars to the point u almost put american car companies out of business and they would be out of business if bush didnt save them.
I'm all for loans to keep the car companies in operation. They represent a critical node in U.S. manufacturing.
But let's not blame consumers for buying cars which offered better value and quality. The Big Three weren't making cars that people actually wanted to buy, at a price they considered fair. So they kept losing market share, which made their fixed costs more of a burden. And they lost more market share. And didn't change a thing.
Last year, the Big Three lost $72 billion, and the number of people who were fired or transferred can be counted on the fingers of one hand.
Good companies design, engineer, and make products people want. So they make profits.
Oh. Meantime, where was your computer built? Where were your shoes made? Your furniture? Your clothes?
Dear me. You didn't buy American.
Hey, neither did I.
dustin: thank u president bush but once again u go unappreciated.
Keep a good thought.
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Thursday, January 01, 2009 3:05 PM Reply
Lisa :
F/19
Coast , UM
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Why don't we bring companies back from china? Why don't we give Americans those jobs? If Americans maunfactured the many things we make in China, then we could sell it to china and Americans. Americans would be buying products produced here, which would be like recycling money back into the economy?
People complain about how there are no jobs... well then bring jobs back.
The question is not what your country can do for you...
but how they are misleading you.
Its a catch-22.
[Report Abuse]
Thursday, January 01, 2009 3:29 PM Reply
dustin
M/29
WILLOUGHBY, Ohio, US
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JAMES:
But let's not blame consumers for buying cars which offered better value and quality.
how do u know these cars had better quality and value?
i think that is a myth forced upon ppl and they bought into it and now they have the thought in their head that they dont want to buy an american car ever again.
i will argue with anybody who tries to tell me jap crap is better than american.
i work on cars. i probably see around 50 cars a week give or take.
believe me, most ppl dont take very good care of their car. most any car is junk by the time its reached 75,000 miles and had absolutely no maintenance.
but the cars foreign or domestic that have owners who keep their car clean and well maintained still have nice cars by the time they are starting to age.
also i live in ohio. its snows here and we use salt on the roads. u wouldnt believe the how these cars rot in these conditions. it makes them much harder to work on when they get rusty and old.
ive seen old southern cars and they dont have a speck of rust.
i would love my job if i lived further south.
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Thursday, January 01, 2009 4:10 PM Reply
JAMES
M/60
PITTSBURGH, Pennsylvania, US
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Lisa :: Why don't we bring companies back from china?
They're still here. But they go and invest wherever they can find labor, from professionals to unskilled workers, and more important, where they can find new markets.
Lisa :: Why don't we give Americans those jobs?
Because Americans will not work for an hour for what people in emerging nations get paid in a week.
Lisa :: If Americans maunfactured the many things we make in China, then we could sell it to china and Americans. Americans would be buying products produced here, which would be like recycling money back into the economy?
For low-cost, labor intensive products, we can't compete with emerging nations.
And so we sell the world the products and services where we are not only competitive but superior.
From GE to Boeing to International Harvester to IBM to Cincinnati Milacron to Microsoft to the Mayo Clinic to MIT to Cal Tech to Eli Lilly to NASDAQ, there's nothing like "Made In USA."
Lest we forget, the U.S. economy still accounts for about 25 per cent of the GDP of the world. In fact, a few states produce more than many emerging or established nations.
Lisa :: People complain about how there are no jobs... well then bring jobs back.
Those old jobs aren't worth doing. The idea is to develop new and better jobs, and furnish the people with the skills to do them at good wages.
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Thursday, January 01, 2009 4:31 PM Reply
Lisa :
F/19
Coast , UM
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JAMES:
Lisa :: Why don't we bring companies back from china?
They're still here. But they go and invest wherever they can find labor, from professionals to unskilled workers, and more important, where they can find new markets.
Lisa :: Why don't we give Americans those jobs?
Because Americans will not work for an hour for what people in emerging nations get paid in a week.
Lisa :: If Americans maunfactured the many things we make in China, then we could sell it to china and Americans. Americans would be buying products produced here, which would be like recycling money back into the economy?
For low-cost, labor intensive products, we can't compete with emerging nations.
And so we sell the world the products and services where we are not only competitive but superior.
From GE to Boeing to International Harvester to IBM to Cincinnati Milacron to Microsoft to the Mayo Clinic to MIT to Cal Tech to Eli Lilly to NASDAQ, there's nothing like "Made In USA."
Lest we forget, the U.S. economy still accounts for about 25 per cent of the GDP of the world. In fact, a few states produce more than many emerging or established nations.
Lisa :: People complain about how there are no jobs... well then bring jobs back.
Those old jobs aren't worth doing. The idea is to develop new and better jobs, and furnish the people with the skills to do them at good wages.
I really like your last line.
"The idea is to develop new and better jobd, and furnish the people with skills to do them at good wages."
But what jobs would we develop? what more is there
The question is not what your country can do for you...
but how they are misleading you.
Its a catch-22.
[Report Abuse]
Thursday, January 01, 2009 4:33 PM Reply
1 OF A KIND MIND
M/25
Somewhere, Tennessee, US
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Lisa ::
Why don't we bring companies back from china? Why don't we give Americans those jobs? If Americans maunfactured the many things we make in China, then we could sell it to china and Americans. Americans would be buying products produced here, which would be like recycling money back into the economy?
People complain about how there are no jobs... well then bring jobs back.
Because the labor is cheaper in China and Mexico. The owners of the companies are saving money by going overseas.
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Thursday, January 01, 2009 4:54 PM Reply
David Christopher Redden
M/38
Shepherdsville, Kentucky, US
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Bailout for the automakers does nothing.
they are not going to create new american jobs for their customers.
They are going to be able to pay the few american workers they have left, and pay their foriegn suppliers.
Then when that runs out, they will beg for more.
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Thursday, January 01, 2009 7:51 PM Reply
Lisa :
F/19
Coast , UM
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What about Obamas plan for a new stimulus package? Is anybody opposed or for it?
why?
Me: I am opposed due to the fact that we should learn from our mistakes. The last stimulus package did nothing to help. People take and will take the stimulus money and spend it on debts instead of buying more products. Thus, it will not help the economy. And also, where is America going to get the money? How and why can we still dig ourselves in trillions and drillions of federal and state debts? It is wrong, insane, and it should be stopped and the debt should be reduced. Not increased to the point that we are in a hole that we can't dig ourselves out of. Borrowing the money from china wont (and isnt helpoing) help us either. We are only paying the interest and will be for years to come. This is crazy. This excessive spending should be and must be stopped.
The question is not what your country can do for you...
but how they are misleading you.
Its a catch-22.
[Report Abuse]
Thursday, January 01, 2009 8:02 PM Reply
Heavyside
M/28
New York, New York, US
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dustin:
JAMES:
But let's not blame consumers for buying cars which offered better value and quality.
how do u know these cars had better quality and value?
i think that is a myth forced upon ppl and they bought into it and now they have the thought in their head that they dont want to buy an american car ever again.
i will argue with anybody who tries to tell me jap crap is better than american.
i work on cars. i probably see around 50 cars a week give or take.
believe me, most ppl dont take very good care of their car. most any car is junk by the time its reached 75,000 miles and had absolutely no maintenance.
but the cars foreign or domestic that have owners who keep their car clean and well maintained still have nice cars by the time they are starting to age.
also i live in ohio. its snows here and we use salt on the roads. u wouldnt believe the how these cars rot in these conditions. it makes them much harder to work on when they get rusty and old.
ive seen old southern cars and they dont have a speck of rust.
i would love my job if i lived further south.
I'm going to jump in here.
Dustin,
I've got a G35. There ain't a car for the money that can compete with it foreign or domestic. Name me an American car that can compete with a G35.
The other thing is that before that I drove Camry's and I still own one. The reason is that you can get 180,000 easily out of one. I know I've done it.
All understanding may be won,
All things be slain and all be done,
By a man with sufficient wit,
For me I make good use of it.
Lisa ::
Why don't we bring companies back from china? Why don't we give Americans those jobs? If Americans maunfactured the many things we make in China, then we could sell it to china and Americans. Americans would be buying products produced here, which would be like recycling money back into the economy?
People complain about how there are no jobs... well then bring jobs back.
You're right. But, the problem is that Obama and the people who voted for him are Globalists. They don't care about America. They care about the Global economy.
[Report Abuse]
Thursday, January 01, 2009 8:06 PM Reply
Heavyside
M/28
New York, New York, US
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Evilside:
Lisa ::
Why don't we bring companies back from china? Why don't we give Americans those jobs? If Americans maunfactured the many things we make in China, then we could sell it to china and Americans. Americans would be buying products produced here, which would be like recycling money back into the economy?
People complain about how there are no jobs... well then bring jobs back.
You're right. But, the problem is that Obama and the people who voted for him are Globalists. They don't care about America. They care about the Global economy.
You said you like G W Bush. He supported free trade. What's up with that?
All understanding may be won,
All things be slain and all be done,
By a man with sufficient wit,
For me I make good use of it.
[Report Abuse]
Thursday, January 01, 2009 8:09 PM Reply
Evilside
M/36
my creepy castle, Illinois, US
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Heavyside:
Evilside:
Lisa ::
Why don't we bring companies back from china? Why don't we give Americans those jobs? If Americans maunfactured the many things we make in China, then we could sell it to china and Americans. Americans would be buying products produced here, which would be like recycling money back into the economy?
People complain about how there are no jobs... well then bring jobs back.
You're right. But, the problem is that Obama and the people who voted for him are Globalists. They don't care about America. They care about the Global economy.
You said you like G W Bush. He supported free trade. What's up with that?
I have never liked everything about anybody. Have you?
I like G.W. Bush mostly because leftists hate him. That's good enough for me.
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Thursday, January 01, 2009 8:12 PM Reply
Heavyside
M/28
New York, New York, US
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Evilside:
Heavyside:
Evilside:
Lisa ::
Why don't we bring companies back from china? Why don't we give Americans those jobs? If Americans maunfactured the many things we make in China, then we could sell it to china and Americans. Americans would be buying products produced here, which would be like recycling money back into the economy?
People complain about how there are no jobs... well then bring jobs back.
You're right. But, the problem is that Obama and the people who voted for him are Globalists. They don't care about America. They care about the Global economy.
You said you like G W Bush. He supported free trade. What's up with that?
I have never liked everything about anybody. Have you?
I like G.W. Bush mostly because leftists hate him. That's good enough for me.
Free trade has many proponents in the Republican party. From what I have seen, those that oppose it in the Republican party are a minority.
All understanding may be won,
All things be slain and all be done,
By a man with sufficient wit,
For me I make good use of it.
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Thursday, January 01, 2009 8:22 PM Reply
Evilside
M/36
my creepy castle, Illinois, US
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Heavyside:
Evilside:
Heavyside:
Evilside:
Lisa ::
Why don't we bring companies back from china? Why don't we give Americans those jobs? If Americans maunfactured the many things we make in China, then we could sell it to china and Americans. Americans would be buying products produced here, which would be like recycling money back into the economy?
People complain about how there are no jobs... well then bring jobs back.
You're right. But, the problem is that Obama and the people who voted for him are Globalists. They don't care about America. They care about the Global economy.
You said you like G W Bush. He supported free trade. What's up with that?
I have never liked everything about anybody. Have you?
I like G.W. Bush mostly because leftists hate him. That's good enough for me.
Free trade has many proponents in the Republican party. From what I have seen, those that oppose it in the Republican party are a minority.
I think there's a difference between free trade and Globalism.
Also, I would not be surprised that many RINO's support opposing views.
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Thursday, January 01, 2009 8:34 PM Reply
dustin
M/29
WILLOUGHBY, Ohio, US
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Heavyside:
I'm going to jump in here.
Dustin,
I've got a G35. There ain't a car for the money that can compete with it foreign or domestic. Name me an American car that can compete with a G35.
The other thing is that before that I drove Camry's and I still own one. The reason is that you can get 180,000 easily out of one. I know I've done it.
im not saying your infinity isnt an awesome car. im sure it is. i happen to like nissans more than toyota or honda or any other asian brand for that matter. the lexus' are nice too. i dont know what year your car is or what you paid but i know those arent cheap cars. a few years ago i was looking at a nissan Z and the price was like 37k.
but to give u an answer i would say any new cadillac is nicer than a G35 and probably in the same price range. if had more money i would buy a new cadillac. the cts is probably a comparable model.
and like i said my 14 year old bonneville easily got to 170k and i fully expect a few more years and 30k more miles at least.
bonnevilles are pretty nice. id be happy as hell to be rolling in a newer one.
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Thursday, January 01, 2009 8:47 PM Reply
Heavyside
M/28
New York, New York, US
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dustin:
Heavyside:
I'm going to jump in here.
Dustin,
I've got a G35. There ain't a car for the money that can compete with it foreign or domestic. Name me an American car that can compete with a G35.
The other thing is that before that I drove Camry's and I still own one. The reason is that you can get 180,000 easily out of one. I know I've done it.
im not saying your infinity isnt an awesome car. im sure it is. i happen to like nissans more than toyota or honda or any other asian brand for that matter. the lexus' are nice too. i dont know what year your car is or what you paid but i know those arent cheap cars. a few years ago i was looking at a nissan Z and the price was like 37k.
but to give u an answer i would say any new cadillac is nicer than a G35 and probably in the same price range. if had more money i would buy a new cadillac. the cts is probably a comparable model.
and like i said my 14 year old bonneville easily got to 170k and i fully expect a few more years and 30k more miles at least.
bonnevilles are pretty nice. id be happy as hell to be rolling in a newer one.
A G35 would run you between 28k - 40k. They are not cheap but they are not as expensive as some Cadillacs. I have a 2004. I don't think that you are going to find a Cadillac that will perform in terms of speed and handling like a G35. I know you won't for the price. I've had my G35 for some time now and I still like driving it as if it were a new car. It's fast and can take corners like you won't believe. I drove quite a few different cars before I bought it. Nothing I drove, even some Mercedes didn't come close. Of course that was the lower end Mercedes.
All understanding may be won,
All things be slain and all be done,
By a man with sufficient wit,
For me I make good use of it.
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Thursday, January 01, 2009 9:06 PM Reply
dustin
M/29
WILLOUGHBY, Ohio, US
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Heavyside:
dustin:
Heavyside:
I'm going to jump in here.
Dustin,
I've got a G35. There ain't a car for the money that can compete with it foreign or domestic. Name me an American car that can compete with a G35.
The other thing is that before that I drove Camry's and I still own one. The reason is that you can get 180,000 easily out of one. I know I've done it.
im not saying your infinity isnt an awesome car. im sure it is. i happen to like nissans more than toyota or honda or any other asian brand for that matter. the lexus' are nice too. i dont know what year your car is or what you paid but i know those arent cheap cars. a few years ago i was looking at a nissan Z and the price was like 37k.
but to give u an answer i would say any new cadillac is nicer than a G35 and probably in the same price range. if had more money i would buy a new cadillac. the cts is probably a comparable model.
and like i said my 14 year old bonneville easily got to 170k and i fully expect a few more years and 30k more miles at least.
bonnevilles are pretty nice. id be happy as hell to be rolling in a newer one.
A G35 would run you between 28k - 40k. They are not cheap but they are not as expensive as some Cadillacs. I have a 2004. I don't think that you are going to find a Cadillac that will perform in terms of speed and handling like a G35. I know you won't for the price. I've had my G35 for some time now and I still like driving it as if it were a new car. It's fast and can take corners like you won't believe. I drove quite a few different cars before I bought it. Nothing I drove, even some Mercedes didn't come close. Of course that was the lower end Mercedes.
another thing i want to add is that we are now talking about luxury cars when i cant even afford a new malibu. shit if i had the money do u think i wouldnt drive a porshe? dont get me wrong i would. but if i had money i would just lease cars.
not everybody can afford those cars. they do not make up the market that is killing domestic american car sales.
its all the ppl that buy these hyundais and kias and mitsubihis and suzukis and subarus and volkswagons.
if all those ppl were driving chevys and fords our car companies would have millions more sales each year.
there is nothing wrong with their product. it isnt inferior. but the image that it is is burned into the minds of americans and im not really sure how it happened or when it started. have u guys seen a honda or toyota late 80's early 90's up close? they were ugly little shitboxes and they sucked to drive.
the only good thing about them was the better than average fuel economy but american cars are starting to catch up to them finally.
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Thursday, January 01, 2009 10:01 PM Reply
Lisa :
F/19
Coast , UM
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Evilside:
Lisa ::
Why don't we bring companies back from china? Why don't we give Americans those jobs? If Americans maunfactured the many things we make in China, then we could sell it to china and Americans. Americans would be buying products produced here, which would be like recycling money back into the economy?
People complain about how there are no jobs... well then bring jobs back.
You're right. But, the problem is that Obama and the people who voted for him are Globalists. They don't care about America. They care about the Global economy.
Pardon my language, but screw free trade. I don't believe in free trade. If you want to do business with sombody then do business, nothing is free. Besides, obviously we are the loser in this. What is America trading exactly? We hardly make products here to trade. This free trade agreement is basically bringing goods from other countries into America, good that are poorly made, cost cents to make, and are of no quality. Once upon a time, when we made things here, we used to make wonderful quality items. clothing? Amazing! Shoes? Wonderful! Sofas, beds, furniture? All outstanding quality. The junk they make in china and God knows where else, sucks. I say, forget free trade and make products here. You would most likley get more buyers for your products because of the good quality, and the people who will make those products will buy them, and they will tell their family and friends how wonderful these products are, and more people will decide to buy them. Its not like the world buys many of the products made in china and taiwan... just america. So its going to be the same, america will still buy the products tht need to be made, maybe even more people will buy them. h
Then people say... aww what about those people and emerging countries??
Well why does it have to be at our expense? Why does america have to pay the price tag?
Why do we need to lose jobs so other countries can have them?
Think about it, we dont help things countries overall... we help the fat cats in those countries
and extort the people. We put them in factories where there are no rules and laws. We put them
in factories where they dont earn fair wages.
We should just bring the jobs back here, and as for emerging countries... so? They will grow in less time
and find another way to do it. It is not our problem, and we shouldnt be making it our problem.
Like giving aid to other countries (even israel), and putting ourselves in everybodies business.
America shoud take care of america first, before America takes care of the rest of the world.
Let other countries deal with their people, their problems, their jobs, economies, and whatever else. The american in america deserves a government that cares about it and listens. not a government that screws over the american because the government can not keep track of how much it spends.
Thats just my view...
The question is not what your country can do for you...
but how they are misleading you.
Its a catch-22.
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Thursday, January 01, 2009 11:03 PM Reply
Æon
F/27
ΓΦΔΞΘΘξς, Omniverse, VA
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From what I have read, Obama is using the FDR model akin to the "WPA" and "CCC". In theory, this is not a perfect but a reasonable plan. Unfortunately, the lobbyists for the states and cities representing the skilled trades businesses such as construction are already lining up with their hands out for public work projects. Those companies only employ at the most, 20 to 25% unskilled labor. Hardly the panacea considering the amount of people unemployed without construction trade experience.
Also, NPR is doing an interview with Elizabeth Warren, who chairs an oversight committee set up by Congress to oversee the bailout/handout. What she has to say will make you sick. That money Bush/Pelosi claimed they needed to desperately or America would default and come crashing down? These companies are using the money to beef up their bottom line profitability, not making that money available in the form of loans as they were supposed to do.
As for where the money will come from? Well from the same place Bush got it to finance his illegal and immoral war in Iraq...also the same place he got it for his $700 billion dollar "handout" to corporate USA, it's called "deficit spending".
“Business!” cried the Ghost, wringing its hands again. “Mankind was my business. The common welfare was my business; charity, mercy, forbearance, and benevolence, were, all, my business. The dealings of my trade were but a drop of water in the comprehensive ocean of my business”
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Thursday, January 01, 2009 11:29 PM Reply
dustin
M/29
WILLOUGHBY, Ohio, US
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Æon :
it's called "deficit spending".
yeah it really sucks when i do it.
i cant have all the things that i really like.
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Friday, January 02, 2009 3:29 AM Reply
Vegas Pat
M/43
LAS VEGAS, Nevada, US
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Æon :
As for where the money will come from? Well from the same place Bush got it to finance his illegal and immoral war in Iraq...also the same place he got it for his $700 billion dollar "handout" to corporate USA, it's called "deficit spending".
Right. Deficit spending. That means that the federal reserve will create the money out of thin air. This is monetary inflation. Along with credit expansion, this is what causes the malinvestment that creates the unsustainable economic bubbles that have brought us to this point. It reduces the dollar's purchasing power (price inflation), destroys personal savings, and creates distortions in the market.
As for economic stimulus, government spending increases consumption and discourages savings and investment. Whereas, with private funds, some may be used to consume and some may be saved and invested, government funds are entirely consumed, which will only increase the depth and length of the recession. What is needed is less consumption and more saving, which will lead to a quicker recovery.
The gov't may be able to give a person a job and a paycheck, but it can't create wealth (economic growth). The only thing gov't does is redistribute wealth.
Despite mountains of historical economic research, we haven't learned shit from the Great Depression.
"The masses, the hosts of common men, do not conceive any ideas sound or unsound. They only choose between the ideologies developed by the intellectual leaders of mankind. But their choice is final and determines the course of events. If they prefer bad doctrines, nothing can prevent disaster." ~Ludwig von Mises
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Friday, January 02, 2009 8:47 AM Reply
Heavyside
M/28
New York, New York, US
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Lisa ::
What is America trading exactly? We hardly make products here to trade.
Now you hit the bullseye on that one. We give China dollars, that's all. And if one day the dollar loses it's reserve currency status, then we are going to have to pay up with something or there will have to be some agreement made with how to resolve all those worthless dollars China would be holding at that point. That's of course assuming that they still have them at that time.
All understanding may be won,
All things be slain and all be done,
By a man with sufficient wit,
For me I make good use of it.
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Friday, January 02, 2009 9:03 AM Reply
David Christopher Redden
M/38
Shepherdsville, Kentucky, US
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Heavyside:
dustin:
JAMES:
But let's not blame consumers for buying cars which offered better value and quality.
how do u know these cars had better quality and value?
i think that is a myth forced upon ppl and they bought into it and now they have the thought in their head that they dont want to buy an american car ever again.
i will argue with anybody who tries to tell me jap crap is better than american.
i work on cars. i probably see around 50 cars a week give or take.
believe me, most ppl dont take very good care of their car. most any car is junk by the time its reached 75,000 miles and had absolutely no maintenance.
but the cars foreign or domestic that have owners who keep their car clean and well maintained still have nice cars by the time they are starting to age.
also i live in ohio. its snows here and we use salt on the roads. u wouldnt believe the how these cars rot in these conditions. it makes them much harder to work on when they get rusty and old.
ive seen old southern cars and they dont have a speck of rust.
i would love my job if i lived further south.
I'm going to jump in here.
Dustin,
I've got a G35. There ain't a car for the money that can compete with it foreign or domestic. Name me an American car that can compete with a G35.
The other thing is that before that I drove Camry's and I still own one. The reason is that you can get 180,000 easily out of one. I know I've done it.
A junky ass 71 Hemi Cuda conv.
I would rather drive and be able to afford a brand new car every three years when the warr runs out. Than drive the same old outdated G35 for 10 years, praying it holds up, becuase I cannot afford to replace it!
Because I thought it better to give my money to another nation, instead of my own.
Give me a job making $30 an hour, and I will buy and drive a new american car every three years.
If I really like the damn thing and want to keep it, I will restore it and fix all it's shortcomings, and it will be my street rod.
Meanwhile you can drive your ten year old, high quality G35, and beg for gas money when you lose your job.
You will not even know who to blame when you lose your job either.
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Friday, January 02, 2009 9:03 AM Reply
Heavyside
M/28
New York, New York, US
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Vegas Pat:
Æon :
As for where the money will come from? Well from the same place Bush got it to finance his illegal and immoral war in Iraq...also the same place he got it for his $700 billion dollar "handout" to corporate USA, it's called "deficit spending".
Right. Deficit spending. That means that the federal reserve will create the money out of thin air. This is monetary inflation. Along with credit expansion, this is what causes the malinvestment that creates the unsustainable economic bubbles that have brought us to this point. It reduces the dollar's purchasing power (price inflation), destroys personal savings, and creates distortions in the market.
Yep, that were they get it from, right out the air. Amazing.
You are right about what got us to this point. I think what's missing, or not emphasised, in your response is the treatment of the financial system like a casino. The misuse of things that credit default swaps and CDO tranches carry the lion's share of the current problems.
Another point is that because most Americans don't save anyway, a moderate amount of inflation actually benefits most folks. Inflation puts creditors at a disadvantage because the money they get back is worth less than the money they loaned.
All understanding may be won,
All things be slain and all be done,
By a man with sufficient wit,
For me I make good use of it.
Vegas Pat:
Æon :
As for where the money will come from? Well from the same place Bush got it to finance his illegal and immoral war in Iraq...also the same place he got it for his $700 billion dollar "handout" to corporate USA, it's called "deficit spending".
Right. Deficit spending. That means that the federal reserve will create the money out of thin air. This is monetary inflation. Along with credit expansion, this is what causes the malinvestment that creates the unsustainable economic bubbles that have brought us to this point. It reduces the dollar's purchasing power (price inflation), destroys personal savings, and creates distortions in the market.
As for economic stimulus, government spending increases consumption and discourages savings and investment. Whereas, with private funds, some may be used to consume and some may be saved and invested, government funds are entirely consumed, which will only increase the depth and length of the recession. What is needed is less consumption and more saving, which will lead to a quicker recovery.
The gov't may be able to give a person a job and a paycheck, but it can't create wealth (economic growth). The only thing gov't does is redistribute wealth.
Despite mountains of historical economic research, we haven't learned shit from the Great Depression.
it is profitable for some people to take out a bunch of american businesses and jobs.
They get the businesses for cheap.
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Friday, January 02, 2009 9:16 AM Reply
Spanktastic
F/29
In Your Pants, Washington, US
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Our tax dollars keep bailing those corporations out, about time I a hand out!
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Friday, January 02, 2009 9:17 AM Reply
Lisa :
F/19
Coast , UM
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David C. Redden:
Vegas Pat:
Æon :
As for where the money will come from? Well from the same place Bush got it to finance his illegal and immoral war in Iraq...also the same place he got it for his $700 billion dollar "handout" to corporate USA, it's called "deficit spending".
Right. Deficit spending. That means that the federal reserve will create the money out of thin air. This is monetary inflation. Along with credit expansion, this is what causes the malinvestment that creates the unsustainable economic bubbles that have brought us to this point. It reduces the dollar's purchasing power (price inflation), destroys personal savings, and creates distortions in the market.
As for economic stimulus, government spending increases consumption and discourages savings and investment. Whereas, with private funds, some may be used to consume and some may be saved and invested, government funds are entirely consumed, which will only increase the depth and length of the recession. What is needed is less consumption and more saving, which will lead to a quicker recovery.
The gov't may be able to give a person a job and a paycheck, but it can't create wealth (economic growth). The only thing gov't does is redistribute wealth.
Despite mountains of historical economic research, we haven't learned shit from the Great Depression.
it is profitable for some people to take out a bunch of american businesses and jobs.
They get the businesses for cheap.
Yes, but profitable for how long? Look at it this way, Americans are the main and if one of the very very very few countries that mass purchases from china. Since most of the jobs have been and are still being exported, and many americans are out of jobs, who is going to purchase what china is making? Eventually, by american companies moving where they make their products, americans will run out of jobs completely.
Then what? Who will buy those products? Who will have the money to?
Like now for instance, there are products sitting on american docks right that are made in china, taiwan, and nobody is buying. There are HUGE amounts of products sitting in stores as surplus, and nobody is buying. There are no jobs and people don't buy. Then what? Is china still going to make and is nobody still going to buy?
Those people who are greedy and indecent enough to do what they are doing are putting themselves in a fix as well. Those companies should support america, americans, the people who mainly buy their products. They should stop making cheap junk in china that is worth less then dirt, and we buy like its actually worth somthing.
The question is not what your country can do for you...
but how they are misleading you.
Its a catch-22.
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Friday, January 02, 2009 9:23 AM Reply
Lisa :
F/19
Coast , UM
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Spanktastic: Our tax dollars keep bailing those corporations out, about time I a hand out!
Meanwhile, education is being cut to a point where we are destroying the youth of america, programs are being cut, healthcare, social security and much more? For what? So we can bail out companies that are of no use to us? I don't want to own a part of AIG, GMC, Chrysler, Freddie mac, fannie mae... I want to know that my tax dollar is being spent towards the benifit of the country and the people in reasonable ways. It does not help us to own companies, this does not even sound right for the government to own companies.
The government should not be bailing out anybody with our tax money, its wrong. Its almost communist.
So what? these companies fail? Its not our fault, it is their fault, and the banks fault. New ones will be created and hopefully better ones.
The question is not what your country can do for you...
but how they are misleading you.
Its a catch-22.
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Friday, January 02, 2009 9:30 AM Reply
Spanktastic
F/29
In Your Pants, Washington, US
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Lisa ::
So what? these companies fail? Its not our fault, it is their fault,
Exactly. But if they are going to get theirs I want mine.
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Friday, January 02, 2009 9:40 AM Reply
Lisa :
F/19
Coast , UM
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Spanktastic:
Lisa ::
So what? these companies fail? Its not our fault, it is their fault,
Exactly. But if they are going to get theirs I want mine.
Lol, unless you are some powerful politician, have some thing of use to washington dc,
are not the average (and to washington -ignorant-) american...
yeah you'll get yours.
But until then... we can just keep paying the bill for companies, pay the salaries of those politicians that are screwing us over and think they know what is best for us, and watch as this country is becomming more indebted to china and spending is skyrocketing out of the solar system.
The question is not what your country can do for you...
but how they are misleading you.
Its a catch-22.
[Report Abuse]
Friday, January 02, 2009 9:45 AM Reply
Heavyside
M/28
New York, New York, US
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David C. Redden:
Heavyside:
dustin:
JAMES:
But let's not blame consumers for buying cars which offered better value and quality.
how do u know these cars had better quality and value?
i think that is a myth forced upon ppl and they bought into it and now they have the thought in their head that they dont want to buy an american car ever again.
i will argue with anybody who tries to tell me jap crap is better than american.
i work on cars. i probably see around 50 cars a week give or take.
believe me, most ppl dont take very good care of their car. most any car is junk by the time its reached 75,000 miles and had absolutely no maintenance.
but the cars foreign or domestic that have owners who keep their car clean and well maintained still have nice cars by the time they are starting to age.
also i live in ohio. its snows here and we use salt on the roads. u wouldnt believe the how these cars rot in these conditions. it makes them much harder to work on when they get rusty and old.
ive seen old southern cars and they dont have a speck of rust.
i would love my job if i lived further south.
I'm going to jump in here.
Dustin,
I've got a G35. There ain't a car for the money that can compete with it foreign or domestic. Name me an American car that can compete with a G35.
The other thing is that before that I drove Camry's and I still own one. The reason is that you can get 180,000 easily out of one. I know I've done it.
A junky ass 71 Hemi Cuda conv.
I would rather drive and be able to afford a brand new car every three years when the warr runs out. Than drive the same old outdated G35 for 10 years, praying it holds up, becuase I cannot afford to replace it!
Because I thought it better to give my money to another nation, instead of my own.
Give me a job making $30 an hour, and I will buy and drive a new american car every three years.
If I really like the damn thing and want to keep it, I will restore it and fix all it's shortcomings, and it will be my street rod.
Meanwhile you can drive your ten year old, high quality G35, and beg for gas money when you lose your job.
You will not even know who to blame when you lose your job either.
Hell I can go replace it right now and pay for it in 3 years, damn it, if I wanted too. Sorry ass punk! You want to talk shit to me son? Your shit ass wish you had a job making $30 and hour? LMAO!! Boy I passed that point so long ago it would make your head spin! I'm way beyond that fool.
What the hell do you know about how this system works? Answer me this, what is a credit default swap?
Son, with skills I've got, I would have to be disabled to be out of a job.
You need to chill out with the arrogance. If you've got something to say take the rhetoric down a notch and we'll talk.
All understanding may be won,
All things be slain and all be done,
By a man with sufficient wit,
For me I make good use of it.
[Report Abuse]
Friday, January 02, 2009 11:10 AM Reply
JAMES
M/60
PITTSBURGH, Pennsylvania, US
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Lisa :: I really like your last line.
"The idea is to develop new and better jobd, and furnish the people with skills to do them at good wages."
But what jobs would we develop? what more is there
In some fields, we have serious shortages. There are not enough teachers, primary care docs, nurses, lab techs, imaging techs, computer engineers, EEs, chemists, mathematicians, goeologists, petroleum engineers, pipeline engineers, offshore operators, even assisted living staff and child care workers.
Short-term, some people can be retrained. Short- and long-term, we need an educational system that prepares people to be something more than an assistant manager at a CVS. Some people would do much better by getting real skill sets in a tech school than getting a meaningless, useless B.A. because that's what everyone else does. Some people with the talent need to have the chance to get the B.S., and the M.S.
Throughout, we have to get serious again about serious schoolwork. Which means teaching the hard sciences and math seriously and well, motivating students to do well enough that they can pursue these fields.
As it is now, literally half of the people who receive advanced degrees in the sciences and engineering in the U.S. are foreign-born. Some stay, most can't, and the Americans left aren't enough for our needs.
Which is why Bill Gates, when he can't find enough Americans to do the work he needs done, and isn't allowed to import enough foreign professionals, opens R&D centers in Canada, China, and India. The same holds true with several other of our biggest and techiest companies.
So if we graduated enough of our own people, while keeping the best of those who come here from elsewhere, the jobs would be filled here.
Let me save job growth for the next post.
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Friday, January 02, 2009 7:44 PM Reply
JAMES
M/60
PITTSBURGH, Pennsylvania, US
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Lisa :: I really like your last line.
"The idea is to develop new and better jobd, and furnish the people with skills to do them at good wages."
But what jobs would we develop? what more is there
New jobs come from new ideas and new investments. Workers who made cars and trucks can just as easily make power windmills, solar panels, or heat pumps. People who designed and built homes and commercial buildings can do the same for schools, colleges, hospitals, and skilled nursing facilities.
The whole job of rebuilding the American infrastructure is enormous. Which demands nothing less than a major national investment, which in turn will create a major national boom.
Most of the jobs recently lost will come back eventually. When spending picks up and credit is freed up, people who were laid off will go back to work.
Some jobs will never come back. Textiles, apparel, footwear, electronics assembly, electrical equipment, low-end furniture and appliances, much of basic metals -- all lost and gone forever, never to return. People in those fields have learned new skills and found new places.
In the financial field, it won't be easy. That sector has lost at least a quarter-million jobs, with more layoffs to come as the whole business changes and contracts. Support workers and tech specialists can find work elsewhere, but there is a large cadre of well-educated, highly paid professionals who have lost not only jobs but careers, in many cases along with much of their net worth. This is a tragedy of great proportion.
These are the hardest times most any of us have seen. But we live in the most affluent nation in history, with all the the power it takes to repair what is broken and restore what is ruined.
Nothing to it but to do it. We have to do it right, and we have to start right away.
Then, in the words of the old song, "Hard times, hard times, come again no more."
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Friday, January 02, 2009 8:05 PM Reply
Lisa :
F/19
Coast , UM
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JAMES:
Lisa :: I really like your last line.
"The idea is to develop new and better jobd, and furnish the people with skills to do them at good wages."
But what jobs would we develop? what more is there
New jobs come from new ideas and new investments. Workers who made cars and trucks can just as easily make power windmills, solar panels, or heat pumps. People who designed and built homes and commercial buildings can do the same for schools, colleges, hospitals, and skilled nursing facilities.
The whole job of rebuilding the American infrastructure is enormous. Which demands nothing less than a major national investment, which in turn will create a major national boom.
Most of the jobs recently lost will come back eventually. When spending picks up and credit is freed up, people who were laid off will go back to work.
Some jobs will never come back. Textiles, apparel, footwear, electronics assembly, electrical equipment, low-end furniture and appliances, much of basic metals -- all lost and gone forever, never to return. People in those fields have learned new skills and found new places.
In the financial field, it won't be easy. That sector has lost at least a quarter-million jobs, with more layoffs to come as the whole business changes and contracts. Support workers and tech specialists can find work elsewhere, but there is a large cadre of well-educated, highly paid professionals who have lost not only jobs but careers, in many cases along with much of their net worth. This is a tragedy of great proportion.
These are the hardest times most any of us have seen. But we live in the most affluent nation in history, with all the the power it takes to repair what is broken and restore what is ruined.
Nothing to it but to do it. We have to do it right, and we have to start right away.
Then, in the words of the old song, "Hard times, hard times, come again no more."
I really like what you said, and it makes sense.
The question is not what your country can do for you...
but how they are misleading you.
Its a catch-22.
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Friday, January 02, 2009 8:19 PM Reply
dustin
M/29
WILLOUGHBY, Ohio, US
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JAMES:
These are the hardest times most any of us have seen.
you are right about that. i have had much lower points in my own life personally, but as far as i can tell the country hasnt seen worse days that i can remember in my lifetime. i am concerned about it a great deal.
But we live in the most affluent nation in history, with all the the power it takes to repair what is broken and restore what is ruined.
i believe that its possible, but i feel like the will and integrity that its gonna take is nowhere to be found. not in our leaders and not in our citizens. nobody knows when we are gonna finally hit bottom. its like everything has become unraveled. more an more its seeming like the country i grew up in is gone. before 9/11 i felt safe. and i dont mean that 9/11 is the only thing that happened to make me feel like america has changed. but it was the most significant event to occur during my lifetime and certainly will go down as one of the most significant events in the history of the world. if u think about it its been nothing but downhill from that day forward.
i will always remember what america was like before 9/11 and cherish those days as the best ive ever had. i feel very fortunate as well. i feel like i grew up during a period of time of the greatest prosperity and good fortune this land has ever seen. the downfall of that is im now seeing the downfall of america now that the good times are over.
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Friday, January 02, 2009 9:53 PM Reply
Æon
F/27
ΓΦΔΞΘΘξς, Omniverse, VA
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"i believe that its possible, but i feel like the will and integrity that its gonna take is nowhere to be found. not in our leaders and not in our citizens. nobody knows when we are gonna finally hit bottom.
Say it ain't so Joe? or so the song goes which alludes to the myth of the boy asking "Shoeless Joe Jackson", his hero. We have no more heroes; political, sports, entertainment or spiritual. Media created sensations are not hero's which would include the aforementioned grouping. Leaders? Ha! They've been replaced by communicators and actors who can lie without breaking a sweat. Hollywood is a cess pool of hypocrisy and duplicity. Sports figures are self-serving icons of the "me first" generation. Spiritual leaders are devoid of the very characteristics of faith they falsely preach. Corporate leaders are the inauspicious bacteria.
The prognosis doesn't look good but there is still hope. Despite the best efforts of the mindless, duplistic right to tear down Barack Obama, my gut feeling says while he certainly is no messiah, he's heading in the right direction. That's good enough for me right now.
'There is a destiny that makes us family: None goes their way alone:
For all that we send into the lives of others, comes back into our own.”
~~ Edwin Markham ~~
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Saturday, January 03, 2009 5:38 AM Reply
Heavyside
M/28
New York, New York, US
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Æon :
"i believe that its possible, but i feel like the will and integrity that its gonna take is nowhere to be found. not in our leaders and not in our citizens. nobody knows when we are gonna finally hit bottom.
Say it ain't so Joe? or so the song goes which alludes to the myth of the boy asking "Shoeless Joe Jackson", his hero. We have no more heroes; political, sports, entertainment or spiritual. Media created sensations are not hero's which would include the aforementioned grouping. Leaders? Ha! They've been replaced by communicators and actors who can lie without breaking a sweat. Hollywood is a cess pool of hypocrisy and duplicity. Sports figures are self-serving icons of the "me first" generation. Spiritual leaders are devoid of the very characteristics of faith they falsely preach. Corporate leaders are the inauspicious bacteria.
The prognosis doesn't look good but there is still hope. Despite the best efforts of the mindless, duplistic right to tear down Barack Obama, my gut feeling says while he certainly is no messiah, he's heading in the right direction. That's good enough for me right now.
I will give Obama credit for speaking out on that window factory issue. And there does need to be some good old fashioned bottom up economics to counteract all the trickle down that's killed the economy. However Obama's appointment of Larry Summers to a key position, who played a key role along with Alan Greenspan and Paul Rubin in derivatives deregulation, doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies. Looks like same old wine new bottles.
Having said that, don't let me discourage you. I hope you are right.
BTW are you aware of some the remarks Summers made in reference to differences in sexes with regards to performance in science and engineering?
All understanding may be won,
All things be slain and all be done,
By a man with sufficient wit,
For me I make good use of it.
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Saturday, January 03, 2009 8:16 AM Reply
JAMES
M/60
PITTSBURGH, Pennsylvania, US
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dustin:
JAMES:
These are the hardest times most any of us have seen.
you are right about that. i have had much lower points in my own life personally, but as far as i can tell the country hasnt seen worse days that i can remember in my lifetime. i am concerned about it a great deal.
But we live in the most affluent nation in history, with all the the power it takes to repair what is broken and restore what is ruined.
i believe that its possible, but i feel like the will and integrity that its gonna take is nowhere to be found. not in our leaders and not in our citizens. nobody knows when we are gonna finally hit bottom. its like everything has become unraveled. more an more its seeming like the country i grew up in is gone. before 9/11 i felt safe. and i dont mean that 9/11 is the only thing that happened to make me feel like america has changed. but it was the most significant event to occur during my lifetime and certainly will go down as one of the most significant events in the history of the world. if u think about it its been nothing but downhill from that day forward.
i will always remember what america was like before 9/11 and cherish those days as the best ive ever had. i feel very fortunate as well. i feel like i grew up during a period of time of the greatest prosperity and good fortune this land has ever seen. the downfall of that is im now seeing the downfall of america now that the good times are over.
I felt exactly the way you did.
I took 9/11 personally. I knew the buildings from when they were the biggest hole in the ground I ever saw, to the day they were topped out. I knew what was in them, from the wire rope to the fireproofing. There was no personal loss, but I did recognize the names of some of the fallen FDNY officers, and knew their faces from a shoebox full of snapshots.
Except that this was not personal. I myself am not a target of any terrorist, and was not even back in the day when surviving a small bomb.
If we are the targets, we are not only bigger than our enemies but better. We will defeat them.
And we will endure this. No downfall here, no doom, no challenge we cannot meet.
One line does occur to me. In early September, 2001, I sent my sister a birthday card with a note:
"Remember the classic Chinese curse: 'May you live in interesting times.'"
On 9/11 she was in China and got a call from a friend in Singapore, telling her to turn on CNN right now.
Her return was delayed a few days, but eventually we sat down to the traditional birthday Chinese dinner. She said "Your %#$@!^! curse came true."
We live in interesting times.
And we will live in history.
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Saturday, January 03, 2009 8:34 AM Reply
Heavyside
M/28
New York, New York, US
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The effects of 9/11 have been over exaggerated and have been used by people like William Kristol to advance their political agenda.
9/11 has very little to do with the current financial crisis.
All understanding may be won,
All things be slain and all be done,
By a man with sufficient wit,
For me I make good use of it.
M/60
PITTSBURGH, Pennsylvania, US
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Heavyside: The effects of 9/11 have been over exaggerated and have been used by people like William Kristol to advance their political agenda.
Among others. You may remember the Doonesbury cartoon, 2004 election, dialog above exterior of the White House: "9/11?" "9/11, 24/7," "9/11, 24/7, until 11/5."
Not to mention America's mayor, who could not utter two sentences in a row without including "9/11."
At least Kristol is fairly benign, as opposed to the zealots who turned that tragedy into nativism, racism, militarism, and paranoid delusion, from CT to VP to SoS.
Heavyside:9/11 has very little to do with the current financial crisis.
Likely none at all. In fact, it may have prepared us for big financial hits. It took some of us a couple years for the assets to come back.
And it did scare the bejesus out of the downtown financial community. A friend at Goldman, evaced in the 1994 WTC bombing, saw the towers burning out of her window. She does not like to talk about it.
For years thereafter, people who took whichever train into downtown went right past Ground Zero -- at grade.
But your point is well taken. The cost of post-9/11 compensation, revenue losses, airline loans, reconstruction, even all our security, does not begin to compare to the cost of the current disaster.
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Saturday, January 03, 2009 10:06 AM Reply
Heavyside
M/28
New York, New York, US
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JAMES:
At least Kristol is fairly benign, as opposed to the zealots who turned that tragedy into nativism, racism, militarism, and paranoid delusion, from CT to VP to SoS.
Kristol played a major role in the decision to go to war in Iraq. These things originate as ideas. He had be pushing for that war for years.
He's a big intellectual leader on the right. His influence, while waning after Iraq, is not to be underestimated.
BTW, he's got his eyes on Sarah Palin. She will be back big time. It will be interesting to see what his role will be.
All understanding may be won,
All things be slain and all be done,
By a man with sufficient wit,
For me I make good use of it.
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Saturday, January 03, 2009 10:11 AM Reply
dustin
M/29
WILLOUGHBY, Ohio, US
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Heavyside:
JAMES:
At least Kristol is fairly benign, as opposed to the zealots who turned that tragedy into nativism, racism, militarism, and paranoid delusion, from CT to VP to SoS.
Kristol played a major role in the decision to go to war in Iraq. These things originate as ideas. He had be pushing for that war for years.
He's a big intellectual leader on the right. His influence, while waning after Iraq, is not to be underestimated.
BTW, he's got his eyes on Sarah Palin. She will be back big time. It will be interesting to see what his role will be.
i notice u mention kristol a lot. what kind of power does he actually have that makes him as dangerous as u like to say?
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Saturday, January 03, 2009 10:26 AM Reply
Heavyside
M/28
New York, New York, US
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dustin:
Heavyside:
JAMES:
At least Kristol is fairly benign, as opposed to the zealots who turned that tragedy into nativism, racism, militarism, and paranoid delusion, from CT to VP to SoS.
Kristol played a major role in the decision to go to war in Iraq. These things originate as ideas. He had be pushing for that war for years.
He's a big intellectual leader on the right. His influence, while waning after Iraq, is not to be underestimated.
BTW, he's got his eyes on Sarah Palin. She will be back big time. It will be interesting to see what his role will be.
i notice u mention kristol a lot. what kind of power does he actually have that makes him as dangerous as u like to say?
It's the most dangerous type of power. It's the power to influence how people think. He's real smart. The guy's father was smart. Kristol graduated magna cum laude from Harvard. Those folks get educated on how to run the world, how to create propaganda, how to overthrow governments, the real reasons behind why the US does things. They don't bullshit. It's about power, who has it, who doesn't, and how to keep it once you have it. Folks like Kristol are the people that tell people like Bush what to think. That's not bullshit either. You think about that. That's real power. That's why it was noteworthy his keen interest in Sarah Palin. Man the guy is real smart Dustin.
Check out his Project for the New American Century website. Look at the signatories to the principles. Many of them are familiar, right? There's people like Wolfowitz, Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, Elliot Abrams, Richard Perle, and Scooter Libby. They are the people that formulated the policy to go to war with Iraq. That's power.
Here's a link to the website, click on Statement of Principles at the top:
Link to Project for the New American Century
All understanding may be won,
All things be slain and all be done,
By a man with sufficient wit,
For me I make good use of it.
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Saturday, January 03, 2009 10:34 AM Reply
dustin
M/29
WILLOUGHBY, Ohio, US
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Heavyside:
dustin:
Heavyside:
JAMES:
At least Kristol is fairly benign, as opposed to the zealots who turned that tragedy into nativism, racism, militarism, and paranoid delusion, from CT to VP to SoS.
Kristol played a major role in the decision to go to war in Iraq. These things originate as ideas. He had be pushing for that war for years.
He's a big intellectual leader on the right. His influence, while waning after Iraq, is not to be underestimated.
BTW, he's got his eyes on Sarah Palin. She will be back big time. It will be interesting to see what his role will be.
i notice u mention kristol a lot. what kind of power does he actually have that makes him as dangerous as u like to say?
It's the most dangerous type of power. It's the power to influence how people think. He's real smart. The guy's father was smart. Kristol graduated magna cum laude from Harvard. Those folks get educated on how to run the world, how to create propaganda, how to overthrow governments, the real reasons behind why the US does things. They don't bullshit. It's about power, who has it, who doesn't, and how to keep it once you have it. Folks like Kristol are the people that tell people like Bush what to think. That's not bullshit either. You think about that. That's real power. That's why it was noteworthy his keen interest in Sarah Palin. Man the guy is real smart Dustin.
Check out his Project for the New American Century website. Look at the signatories to the principles. Many of them are familiar, right? There's people like Wolfowitz, Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, Elliot Abrams, Richard Perle, and Scooter Libby. They are the people that formulated the policy to go to war with Iraq. That's power.
Here's a link to the website, click on Statement of Principles at the top:
Link to Project for the New American Century
ive done some reading on kristol. not a lot. but i wanted to get more familiar with the guy. i see him appear on cnn occasionally and there is a certain mystique about him that i cant quite describe. he is soft spoken and likes to smile.
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Saturday, January 03, 2009 10:44 AM Reply
Heavyside
M/28
New York, New York, US
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dustin:
Heavyside:
dustin:
Heavyside:
JAMES:
At least Kristol is fairly benign, as opposed to the zealots who turned that tragedy into nativism, racism, militarism, and paranoid delusion, from CT to VP to SoS.
Kristol played a major role in the decision to go to war in Iraq. These things originate as ideas. He had be pushing for that war for years.
He's a big intellectual leader on the right. His influence, while waning after Iraq, is not to be underestimated.
BTW, he's got his eyes on Sarah Palin. She will be back big time. It will be interesting to see what his role will be.
i notice u mention kristol a lot. what kind of power does he actually have that makes him as dangerous as u like to say?
It's the most dangerous type of power. It's the power to influence how people think. He's real smart. The guy's father was smart. Kristol graduated magna cum laude from Harvard. Those folks get educated on how to run the world, how to create propaganda, how to overthrow governments, the real reasons behind why the US does things. They don't bullshit. It's about power, who has it, who doesn't, and how to keep it once you have it. Folks like Kristol are the people that tell people like Bush what to think. That's not bullshit either. You think about that. That's real power. That's why it was noteworthy his keen interest in Sarah Palin. Man the guy is real smart Dustin.
Check out his Project for the New American Century website. Look at the signatories to the principles. Many of them are familiar, right? There's people like Wolfowitz, Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, Elliot Abrams, Richard Perle, and Scooter Libby. They are the people that formulated the policy to go to war with Iraq. That's power.
Here's a link to the website, click on Statement of Principles at the top:
Link to Project for the New American Century
ive done some reading on kristol. not a lot. but i wanted to get more familiar with the guy. i see him appear on cnn occasionally and there is a certain mystique about him that i cant quite describe. he is soft spoken and likes to smile.
Someone else you might want to check out is Yale educated, John Negroponte. Very interesting guy. It's an example of what I mean when I say these guys get educated on how to really run the world. Now he's a more 'hands on' kind of guy. Kristol provides the intellectual foundation.
Link to background on John Negroponte
All understanding may be won,
All things be slain and all be done,
By a man with sufficient wit,
For me I make good use of it.
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Saturday, January 03, 2009 10:53 AM Reply
dustin
M/29
WILLOUGHBY, Ohio, US
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Heavyside:
Link to Project for the New American CenturyLink to background on John Negroponte
i bookmarked both pages for future reference.
but why should we fear these men?
what are the names of the men who make up intellectual foundation of the liberal agenda?
and why should they be trusted instead of kristol and his boys?
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Saturday, January 03, 2009 4:12 PM Reply
Heavyside
M/28
New York, New York, US
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dustin:
Heavyside:
Link to Project for the New American CenturyLink to background on John Negroponte
i bookmarked both pages for future reference.
but why should we fear these men?
what are the names of the men who make up intellectual foundation of the liberal agenda?
and why should they be trusted instead of kristol and his boys?
Kristol should be feared because of his views regarding the use of the US military to project the power of the US. He wants to expand the US military and transform the world into a global US empire. This has lead to the unnecessary invasion and occupation of Iraq, the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, the damage of US reputation, and the waste of hundreds of billions of dollars that have been put to better use.
One person on the liberal side is Alan Dershowitz. I'm no fan of his either, but I prefer him to Kristol.
You have to keep your eye on all these people. They are powerful and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
If the following persons could be free from the shackles of politics and could run the country looking out for the nation's best interests, I would feel better:
1. James Baker
2. Wesley Clark
3. Colin Powell
4. Al Gore
All understanding may be won,
All things be slain and all be done,
By a man with sufficient wit,
For me I make good use of it.
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Sunday, January 11, 2009 7:55 PM Reply
WesleyWes
M/36
Unincorporated North Saint Louis County, Missouri, US
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Let the Leftist Engineered Bankruptcy - be the global pauper beacon of the global community.
dickgentile was here.
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Sunday, January 11, 2009 8:37 PM Reply
Conservative USA
M/27
DES MOINES, Iowa, US
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It is a complete joke. Anyone who can see why should be taken out back...
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Sunday, January 11, 2009 8:39 PM Reply
Conservative USA
M/27
DES MOINES, Iowa, US
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Heavyside:
4. Al Gore
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Wow... I haven't laughed that hard in a long time.
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Monday, January 12, 2009 12:28 PM Reply
Claudia
F/99
Pennsylvania, US
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With all the outsourcing the Republicans (and also some Dems) fostered with tax breaks, and the resulting shutting down of factories and other businesses and the resulting loss of jobs in the USA, don't you think it will necessarily cost a lot of money to rebuild what's been destroyed? Factories and jobs "don't grow on trees", ie, they really do need to be reestablished. The banks, however, should not be allowed to charge high interest on loans to develop new businesses. They already got bailed out, and I think that was a huge fiasco. Why bailout loansharks - instead, help the people who lost their homes, jobs, etc., often caused by the falsely inflated interest rates by bad banks whose CEO's live (and fly the friendly skies) in luxury homes and private jets.
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Tuesday, January 13, 2009 8:47 AM Reply
Count Vladimir
M/19
keene, New Hampshire, US
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these stimulus packages do absolutly nothing. everyone i know either pays fines with that money or buys drugs or debts, and the people that dont do this dont really need the money anyways. what we need is a federal wage increase. Working for 8 and pennies just doesn't cut it anymore. i personly think that we could do without this piece of shit government and its bullshit regulations and departments that have not done shit since the 70s
nick
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Tuesday, January 13, 2009 8:49 AM Reply
Count Vladimir
M/19
keene, New Hampshire, US
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our generation will never retire...
think about that
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Tuesday, January 13, 2009 9:30 AM Reply
WesleyWes
M/36
Unincorporated North Saint Louis County, Missouri, US
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You can bring down the cost of living, by living poor.
dickgentile was here.
WesleyWes: You can bring down the cost of living, by living poor.
Maybe the best advice available for these times.
Not only does it save money, but it feels virtuous.
Even I can admit learning a thing or two from people who got through the Great Depression. In flush times, they may have seemed cheap. In these times, they're smart.
At least I don't have to go down to the railroad tracks to pick up coal that had fallen off the engines and bring it back for the furnace.
And I have yet to have a Depression Sandwich for lunch.
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Friday, January 16, 2009 8:25 PM Reply
SkipShapiro Enterprises
M/62
NEW BEDFORD, Massachusetts, US
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We need Hope,Jobs,Consumer Confidance,And a New New Deal Stimulus Package
Add this button to your Favorite Blog !
here is the code for the image shown ...
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Saturday, January 17, 2009 11:14 AM Reply
James
M/30
Temple, Georgia, US
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For all of you out there who voted for Obama and think this is a great "Historic Moment" in history. Obama, whether black or white, is a socialist. So obviously you all havn't learned from history. Socialism and communism don't work! This is not the change we all needed. He will help those crooks already in power to create more dependency on the government, and as the government grows even more our rights will continue to disapear. The government has NEVER given back any power given to it by the people. It will continue to use and abuse that power for its' own gain, and we will see one crisis after another until this nation as we have known it is no more. I hope and I pray that there are still enough God fearing people in this government who will pray and be more active in leading this country back to being "One nation, under God...". Until we put God back in our Government and in our society, we will continue down this path of self destruction. I will continue to pray for this new government. God help us all!
"God I pray that we will seek your face, and may our nation be in your grace.
Forgive us all our sins and debts, and hold us in your arms safe and blessed."
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Saturday, January 17, 2009 11:20 AM Reply
Æon
F/27
ΓΦΔΞΘΘξς, Omniverse, VA
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James:For all of you out there who voted for Obama and think this is a great "Historic Moment" in history. Obama, whether black or white, is a socialist. So obviously you all havn't learned from history.
Ya know something Bunky? John McCain proposed spending his way out of this mess too. So tell me Oh Wise One, what do you propose as you obviously are still in the "McCarthy" mode of life.
'There is a destiny that makes us family: None goes their way alone:
For all that we send into the lives of others, comes back into our own.”
~~ Edwin Markham ~~
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Saturday, January 17, 2009 11:58 AM Reply
Piss Pot Pete
M/37
Here, New York, US
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I hate to admit it, but the fat fuck Rush Limbaugh made a good suggestion last week.
He was suggesting that congress should eliminate the income tax for one year. This would allow working people the chance to keep their wages. It could almost be viewed as a personal bailout. I know we would not be collecting the revenues to run the government but it can help stimulate the economy.
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Saturday, January 17, 2009 8:29 PM Reply
James
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Temple, Georgia, US
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Did you even read what I wrote? My concern is not just Obamas' spending, which by the way is a hell of alot more than McCains' plan, it is his personal and political philosophy. Bigger government, spreading the wealth, more programs, more government interference, punishing those who produce, not to mention his numerous "acquaintances" like Aires, Wright, and his Chicago cronies. It amazes me how people like you just seem to overlook all the scandels and people who surround this guy. However, I have no choice now that he is in office but to pray for him to be a good president. He must be part of Gods' plan somehow. I just hope it's not too punish us for turning our back on Him!
How China Could Use Currency as a Weapon
by Bryan Rich 03-21-09
China’s currency policy is pretty far down the list of priorities for the U.S. Treasury staff. But it could be the turning point in this economic crisis — and for the worse.
Pressures on China to join the free market global economy on an equal playing field have intensified over the years. That’s because during the last few decades, the artificially weak yuan had given China a distinct and unfair trade advantage, which helped propel its economy to become the third largest in the world.
While China became the world’s factory, producing cheap goods for rich consuming nations, like the United States, competitive export markets were displaced by China’s cheaper production. And the trade balance for net consuming countries plummeted deep into negative territory.
After consistent global political pressure led by the U.S. Treasury, the Chinese begrudgingly yielded in 2005 and began to slowly allow its currency to appreciate.
China’s manipulated currency, the yuan, gives it a huge unfair advantage over its global trading partners.
You see, when a country has a free floating currency, or one with a value determined by market forces, the value of the currency is measured on its merits. Countries with strong, robust fundamentals and a growing economy with stable inflation, tend to have strong currencies. And the opposite is true for weak, fundamentally flawed countries — those countries that cannot attract foreign direct investment, but also repel domestic investment.
In China’s case, a fixed (or pegged) currency regime is a huge unfair advantage.
And here’s why …
China doesn’t have to play by the same rules as its counterparts that have free floating currencies. Economic transparency and adherence to globally accepted industrial policy standards and intellectual property rights are not part of the Chinese playbook. Therefore, countries that are willing to buy from China are at a competitive disadvantage.
A Cycle That
Cannot Continue …
When a country manipulates its currency to keep it weak, it creates a competitive advantage over its trading partners. The cycle shown below leads to a transfer of wealth from the consuming nation to the producing nation.
This cycle has dire consequences …
The United States is now dependent upon the Chinese to finance our consumption through ownership of U.S. Treasuries. And with an already fragile economy, the U.S. is put in a position of weakness relative to China.
Convenient Diplomacy …
When the global economy was roaring, China was the center for foreign direct investment. Endless talk of the insatiable demand from its emerging and abundant lower class drove commodities to record highs. And speculation of China becoming the largest, most powerful economy in the world was rampant.
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To keep its key trading partners at bay, particularly the U.S., the Chinese gradually allowed their currency to climb. Three years later the yuan was up a meager 17 percent against the U.S. dollar. But that was enough to quiet the U.S. senators who had campaigned for a 27.5 percent tariff on all Chinese imports.
Meanwhile, the Chinese economy grew nearly 5 times faster than the U.S. economy!
Now, over the last year, China has virtually put the brakes on further appreciation. Its export-dependent economy has slowed dramatically and so has its compliance with revaluing the yuan.
Source: Bloomberg
Now, as you can see in the above chart, market participants (the red line) are pricing in a weaker yuan over the next year. An about face from the more than 11 percent revaluation the market was pricing in just 12 months ago.
Considering the breadth and depth of the economic crisis, I think China poses a valid threat to a global economic recovery.
Here’s why …
Global Economic Market Share
Is Ripe for the Taking
The credibility of U.S. global economic leadership is waning, and the major economic powers in the world are vulnerable. As a result, the U.S. political influence over China is vulnerable, too. So, if in fact, China’s economy is improving as reported, this could be an opportune time for China to increase its share of the global market. And the perfect tool for the job: Currency devaluation.
While China’s currency is virtually unchanged, its emerging Asian competitors, like South Korea and Thailand, have experienced currency declines in the 30 percent and 40 percent range. This doesn’t sit well with Chinese officials.
A weaker yuan could boost China’s economy and international trade.
Weakening its currency will make China’s goods even cheaper on the global market and could stimulate its economy. However, that move could have a dangerous impact on its fragile global trading partners, namely the United States.
As free market economies with free floating currencies are battling to revive growth and competitiveness, the Chinese could simply adjust down their currency. Most likely, this would be met with a very unfriendly response.
Devaluation of the yuan would be a direct rejection of American-led initiatives to level the global playing field. To this point the U.S. has handled China with kid gloves. It has been hesitant to officially name China a currency manipulator, which is a direct violation of World Trade Organization laws.
China’s reversing course on its promise to global trading partners, most importantly the United States, would mean major political and economic warfare.
Threats of Protectionism …
Prior to China “revaluing” the yuan in 2005 and throughout the past few years, U.S. politicians have been waving the stick of protectionist threats. Those threats included a hefty charge at the port for Chinese goods — a 27.5 percent tariff.
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This delicate relationship makes a deterioration of U.S./China relations a threat and potential catalyst for another leg down for the global depression. And it may already be starting …
The Pentagon has announced there have been a series of recent run-ins. One, for example, was when the Chinese harassed American naval ships in the South China Sea.
That’s not all … don’t forget China has the world’s largest holding of U.S. Treasuries. And the Chinese have recently expressed discontent over the devaluing nature of the U.S. government’s activities toward their investment.
I think the subject of China’s currency is going to heat up. And I don’t think China will hesitate to look out for its own best interest. That means devaluing the yuan to bolster its economy and go after a global economic market share.
What’s more, it might start scaling out of the U.S. Treasury market. That would create some real fireworks, and is yet another reason to be cautious around longer-term government bonds right now.
Regards,
Bryan
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